Avaloq or SAP?

[MmarcoM]

Hello BobHope,
in reply to your post of November, where you were planning to get to know avaloq.. how did it went?
Did you manage to get a training course?
when i checked their website, it looked to me like it's kind of tough to get a training certification if you don't work in a banking environment....

do you have any news?

regards
Marco

[Pondlife]

Certainly for functional consultants experience counts. Often the job ad will specify a certain years experience or more specificaly a number of full project lifecycles. Not sure what it's like for the techies though.

[MmarcoM]

Hi all again,
one more question on SAP skills
i agree 100% that getting training courses to update skills will be beneficial...
however, would an additional skill on CV (not backed by experience, but just by a certification) will be valued by employers in the contractor world?

i thought that, in front of your possible customers, having training cert but not practical experience does not make much impression (well, still is better than no cert at all though..)


thanks and regards
Marco

[rootsnall]

This 'shareware' version of sap is not the proper thing. It's only the ABAP kernel and a basic database without the main sap tables or code. That is, you cannot run any of the main sap functionality (business transactions) you can only write your own code. It's also free (used to be anyway).HTH

I think there is a downloadable freebie of the latest SAP version out there at the moment on one of the SAP websites ( SDN i think !? ). I got a couple of the older MiniWAS versions from the SAP Shop web page posted to you on CD and they were either free or a few Euros. I found them pretty good for learning new SAP techie skills but as you say they are useless for functional/configuration as the application s/w is not there.

I have just managed to get onto an XI related project, still a bit sceptical to its benefits yet but once I've got it on my CV it will be a wonderful product !

[Pondlife]

The difference is the cost of the training. It is often cheaper to fly to SA and take a few weeks of courses than to do them here. It's the same standard courses both run by SAP.

This 'shareware' version of sap is not the proper thing. It's only the ABAP kernel and a basic database without the main sap tables or code. That is, you cannot run any of the main sap functionality (business transactions) you can only write your own code. It's also free (used to be anyway).

SAP is not easy to get into as a functional consultant but a lot of future SAP work will be based on integration with other products, SOA etc hence the development of XI which is basically SAPs messaging backbone. A solid background in Biztalk, Seebeyond, Tibco, MQ etc would be a good starting point though.

HTH

[rootsnall]

[QUOTE=MmarcoM]Hi rootsnall,
why you said that? (i assume RSA is south africa)..
can't you get same training also in europe?

last i have heard (from a SAP Consultant) is that in india some indians arranged a SAP course using shareware versions of SAP software, and at the big day none of the machine in the classroom started because the shareware version had only 1 license.....

I think wtih SAP the best way is to find an employer that 'sponsor' you for SAP courses and certification..... but not sure if you could be 'sponsored' when you are a contractor...


thanks and regards
Marco[/QUOTE

I was talking about the official SAP run courses and South Africa and India were the cheapest English speaking course venues a few years back when I was interested. There are probably other Co's offering SAP training these days !?

SAP will defo have training in Europe but not usually in English and probably the same price as UK. The courses and rates used to be on the SAP website.

The permie route to training is a possible but relys on future training promises and usually low pay to go with the promises !

[MmarcoM]

Hi rootsnall,

some people head over to RSA or India if they are seriously trying to retrain and get certification

why you said that? (i assume RSA is south africa)..
can't you get same training also in europe?

last i have heard (from a SAP Consultant) is that in india some indians arranged a SAP course using shareware versions of SAP software, and at the big day none of the machine in the classroom started because the shareware version had only 1 license.....

I think wtih SAP the best way is to find an employer that 'sponsor' you for SAP courses and certification..... but not sure if you could be 'sponsored' when you are a contractor...


thanks and regards
Marco

[rootsnall]

I haven't been on one for years but they are expensive and obviously in just a week or 2 only skim over things, some people head over to RSA or India if they are seriously trying to retrain and get certification. If its a new area with no skill base out there it may be enough to blag your way in early and pay off in a big way. But I know people who have paid for a course and then its got them nowhere !? A lot of the SAP 'new dimension' products just fade away, some take off as it appears with XI at the moment.

[Pondlife]

Thanks for the info. I had a look - XI looks similar to Tibco IM or Seebeyond - v. proprietary but looks safer than java / j2ee / tibco. I've worked on projects integrating with SAP systems.

Are their training courses any good?

SAP courses tend to be okay if you have some basic knowledge beforehand but they are expensive (were over £500 per day a few years back)

Have a look here for an overview of XI.

[bobhope]

Thanks for the info. I had a look - XI looks similar to Tibco IM or Seebeyond - v. proprietary but looks safer than java / j2ee / tibco. I've worked on projects integrating with SAP systems.

Are their training courses any good?

[rootsnall]

It is easy to pick up the ABAP coding basics. But the vast majority of the work is amending and fiddling with the millions upon millions of lines of existing application code and it'll take you a few years to learn the ropes to a standard to compete with the now many experienced contractors. The latest platform will allow you to develop in Java aswell as ABAP and some of the new SAP related products require Java knowledge. You could take a punt on trying to learn something that would get you into the SAP world that way. Knowing what to learn and how to go about learning it is a bit trickier. Have a gander at https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn !? XI is an SAP middleware product that is taking off but getting hold of a system to learn it on is your main problem.

Never heard of Avalaoq !? Maybe the way to go.

[bobhope]

I'm looking to add some new skills next year to complement my existing J2EE / middleware (tibco, mq, etc) skills. Based on a quick jobsite trawl, the 2 likely candidates are:

SAP: of course, huge demand but the component base looks enormous. ABAP looks fairly straightforward.

Avalaoq: much more niche, but the projects look juicy!

Any comments much appreciated