Reply to: Agency rates negotiation

[northernladuk]

Correct. It seemed crazy, but I guess it's legal...

Unfortunately, I don't really want to go into too much detail here. Sorry.

It's only legal when lawyers and courts get involved. Until then it's a dispute between them and you, but you definitely on the back foot. Negotiation and agreement is more likely to resolve it. It's expensive to go legal so bear that in before folding like a pack of cards.

Also if they do want to sue you it has to be for tangible losses, not any old number they think will do.

If you can't go in to detail just bear those points in mind. Might help you find a reasonable solution. You've breached your contract for some inexplicable but bear the points above in mind and it might not be too bad.

HTH.

[candlewax]

But that's not what he asked. He is (I think) asking about dicussing rates with clients when his contract forbades him from doing so.

Correct. It seemed crazy, but I guess it's legal...

Unfortunately, I don't really want to go into too much detail here. Sorry.

[northernladuk]

Sorry if I wasn't clear - the last couple of agencies I've spoken to I've asked them if they've been on an open book (fixed percentage) or fixed rate with the client. They're been forthcoming when questioned in the main. I could be approaching this incorrectly, though.

But that's not what he asked. He is (I think) asking about dicussing rates with clients when his contract forbades him from doing so.

[northernladuk]

Interesting - I wonder whether it passes QDOS or not? Thanks for the heads up!

Discussed ad infinitum already. Are you aware of the Google search method. A number of things you've mentioned recently are very well covered on here already.

[mattfx]

I'd start a new thread and give us a bit more detail about what the contract says and what you've done. I think mattfx has the wrong idea and I'm a little confused.

Saying that if a clause in the contract says don't so something and you have I'd expect to be walked and threats of being sued for an losses the agent has incurred at worst. Anything less than that is a bonus.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - the last couple of agencies I've spoken to I've asked them if they've been on an open book (fixed percentage) or fixed rate with the client. They're been forthcoming when questioned in the main. I could be approaching this incorrectly, though.

[mattfx]

Although interestingly I recall reading recently that having NOT having a notice period can actually be preferable from an IR35 perspective, as it helps prove that you are not an employee: MBF Design Services Limited vs HMRC: IR35 is why it pays to have no notice period :: Contractor UK

Interesting - I wonder whether it passes QDOS or not? Thanks for the heads up!

[northernladuk]

Anyone have any experience discussing the agency's percentage when the contracts say not to?

I'd start a new thread and give us a bit more detail about what the contract says and what you've done. I think mattfx has the wrong idea and I'm a little confused.

Saying that if a clause in the contract says don't so something and you have I'd expect to be walked and threats of being sued for an losses the agent has incurred at worst. Anything less than that is a bonus.

[CatOnMat]

Yes - ask them outright if they are on open book or a fixed rate with the client. Straight up ask. They'll come back and say open book anyway, but this is the only professional way you can handle it. It's up to you to interpret if they're fibbing or not.

OP after I caught up with this thread i'd say take the first offer - second one sounds like a ballache. Also a months notice period for a contract is a very, very good notice period. Most (in infrastructure anyway) seem to be a week or two.

Although interestingly I recall reading recently that having NOT having a notice period can actually be preferable from an IR35 perspective, as it helps prove that you are not an employee: MBF Design Services Limited vs HMRC: IR35 is why it pays to have no notice period :: Contractor UK

Personally if everything else is IR35-friendly I must admit I quite like the notice period on their side to stop clients from getting too trigger-happy and also one on my side to reassure them that I'm less likely to leave them in the lurch while still giving me the option to terminate just like they have, but I suppose it is a risk factor to allow for.

[candlewax]

Yes - ask them outright if they are on open book or a fixed rate with the client. Straight up ask. They'll come back and say open book anyway, but this is the only professional way you can handle it. It's up to you to interpret if they're fibbing or not.

It already came out from the client and the agency's shouting "breach of contract!". I'm not sure about their legal recourse or whether they'd pursue it.

[mattfx]

Anyone have any experience discussing the agency's percentage when the contracts say not to?

Yes - ask them outright if they are on open book or a fixed rate with the client. Straight up ask. They'll come back and say open book anyway, but this is the only professional way you can handle it. It's up to you to interpret if they're fibbing or not.

OP after I caught up with this thread i'd say take the first offer - second one sounds like a ballache. Also a months notice period for a contract is a very, very good notice period. Most (in infrastructure anyway) seem to be a week or two.

[candlewax]

Correct. The negotiation is about reducing the agents profit margin. The client will likely have a rate card and that's it. The wiggle room is how much you can take off the agent. Newbies often get stung very hard and can easily be 20% upwards because the new guys just don't have a clue.

If they are on a fixed margin then there is no negotiation so much easier and their margins are pretty low already.

Anyone have any experience discussing the agency's percentage when the contracts say not to?

[missinggreenfields]

So.....was offered the second contract. Was told I was put forward for £400 and now agent is saying its £375 as there are other candidates who are cheaper...so why put me forward for £400 in the first place? Initially he said that he would try for £450 and then said that the client said that was a bit tight and then I said £425 and he said they have came back with £375. Something seems a bit off. He knows I have another offer waiting at 400 but was willing to wait for the outcome of this one as it is a longer contract length. Agent up to his tricks again you think?

Who knows what the agent and / or the client is up to?

Take the role that will give you the most satisfaction. If that means you settle for £375 a day and you're happier than you would be at £400 a day, then I would take the lower rate to be happier - you're a long time dead, after all.

[LondonManc]

Do HR have anything to do with contractors rate negotiation or is this between myself and the agent? The agent keeps saying that he needs to go back to HR to discuss rate negotiation...

There are two negotiations. One between you and the agent and one between the agent and client co. If you're happy with the first gig, tell him you're taking it. DO NOT, under any circumstances, divulge details of either gig to the other agent. If the rate on gig one is acceptable, tell the agent on gig two that you're going to accept it if they cannot improve their offer.

[starburst89]

Do HR have anything to do with contractors rate negotiation or is this between myself and the agent? The agent keeps saying that he needs to go back to HR to discuss rate negotiation...

[VillageContractor]

So.....was offered the second contract. Was told I was put forward for £400 and now agent is saying its £375 as there are other candidates who are cheaper...so why put me forward for £400 in the first place? Initially he said that he would try for £450 and then said that the client said that was a bit tight and then I said £425 and he said they have came back with £375. Something seems a bit off. He knows I have another offer waiting at 400 but was willing to wait for the outcome of this one as it is a longer contract length. Agent up to his tricks again you think?

Yes. You have 2 offers you can play hardball with the agent. You need to decide what is the lowest amount you're willing to take for this role. Either tell the agent the rate or rate + x and be negotiated down. Otherwise take the first offer