Reply to: Contract v perm question

[MyUserName]

Employers will often pay you as little as they can get away with paying you, why would they pay more?

What agencies get is a completely different issue. Those contractors might have very specific skill sets, the agencies might have other costs being paid via those invoices etc.

You are comparing apples to pianos.

You job sounds awful and I would leave, whether I would leave for a contract or for a different perm job is a question into which I would factor the nuances my exact situation at that specific time. presumably you did similarly?

[jmo21]

Forever until the next round of redundancies which can happen quite often these days

That's why I had forever in quotes. They have to calculate based on the info at the time, they can't take into account a redundancy in some random amount of time.

[Hobosapien]

Forever until the next round of redundancies which can happen quite often these days

Or a restructuring where the permies have to re-apply for their jobs as a way for the management to get rid of those without a brown enough nose.

Maybe that's just PS.

[SuperZ]

As someone said above, a permie role has to be seen as "forever" when it is being calculated into a departments budget.

Forever until the next round of redundancies which can happen quite often these days

[jmo21]

I know it's funny isn't it. I switched to semi-perm for a while and when talking about money and continued use of long term contractors I was told "we don't have the budget to pay permanent staff more but contractors get paid out of a different pot of money". Not the first time I've heard that one. I had to reply with something along the lines of "Shareholders will see it as one pot of money". Note that some of the contractors has been there for years (10+)

I recently returned to contracting and it has taken a bit of time to adapt back to the mentality and downsides of traffic, commuting, staying away, things not always going to plan but am adjusting back to it again

It's just part of how big companies work.

Approval for £x per year permie is way harder than approval for a contractor.

As someone said above, a permie role has to be seen as "forever" when it is being calculated into a departments budget.

[SuperZ]

Ok I understand that but my point is that it seems the company don't want to pay me more but they have the money to pay agencies £1k a day.

I know it's funny isn't it. I switched to semi-perm for a while and when talking about money and continued use of long term contractors I was told "we don't have the budget to pay permanent staff more but contractors get paid out of a different pot of money". Not the first time I've heard that one. I had to reply with something along the lines of "Shareholders will see it as one pot of money". Note that some of the contractors has been there for years (10+)

I recently returned to contracting and it has taken a bit of time to adapt back to the mentality and downsides of traffic, commuting, staying away, things not always going to plan but am adjusting back to it again

[Hobosapien]

That's life, Jim.

When I was a consultant, I had a client that was paying £1500 a day for my time. They asked me if I wanted to go contracting for them (no handcuff clause in the contracts for anyone) and I said I'd consider it for the right rate. They offered £350 a day because "there isn't the budget available".

I declined, they kept paying the consultancy £1500 a day for me for the next six months

Hells bells, would love to know the logic behind that if it's something better than corruption.

Maybe you should have said you'd go consulting for them to get the extra dosh they pay for the right job title on the documents.

[missinggreenfields]

Ok I understand that but my point is that it seems the company don't want to pay me more but they have the money to pay agencies £1k a day.

That's life, Jim.

When I was a consultant, I had a client that was paying £1500 a day for my time. They asked me if I wanted to go contracting for them (no handcuff clause in the contracts for anyone) and I said I'd consider it for the right rate. They offered £350 a day because "there isn't the budget available".

I declined, they kept paying the consultancy £1500 a day for me for the next six months

[MrMarkyMark]

Yes I understand - I was a contractor for 10 years before taking last perm role.

You very much surprise me, as you do seem a little clueless as to how things work.
Other people's money is nothing to do with you. You don't know the fee structure, there could be an agency and a consultancy having a slice of that 1k pie. Budgets are often set for various projects, BAU etc. Maybe there's not enough there for a rise?

Finally, they may be glad to see you're back of you as it will give them an option to hire a cheaper resource.

Anyway, you have quit now, time to move on.

[psychocandy]

Good for you OP. Lifes too short to be working your nuts off. You know your employer is never going to give you a pay rise dont you? They'll keep it dangling and hope you dont leave.

Go for the contract.

[Hobosapien]

Ok I understand that but my point is that it seems the company don't want to pay me more but they have the money to pay agencies £1k a day.

The reasons for that may be similar to why companies use contractors instead of just getting more permies. It's not just about the overall costs to the client. e.g. they can argue that the £1k a day is a time limited overhead where if your salary was increased that would be 'forever'.

There's a lot said about being ignorant of what others get paid as there's only so much you can do about it anyway. But now you've found out you're in that state of trying to do something about it. Good luck, hope there's plenty of contract work out there for a long time to come.

[simplicity]

Then why are you even asking! But if you were a contractor, you must know that this is wrong:

It is their agencies who are getting £1K a day.

Ok I understand that but my point is that it seems the company don't want to pay me more but they have the money to pay agencies £1k a day.

[NotAllThere]

Yes I understand - I was a contractor for 10 years before taking last perm role.

Then why are you even asking! But if you were a contractor, you must know that this is wrong:

...I see contractors invoices showing they are getting £1k a day. ..

It is their agencies who are getting £1K a day.

[simplicity]

Sounds like a little research should be done, I think its all covered on here

Yes I understand - I was a contractor for 10 years before taking last perm role.

[MrMarkyMark]

Well your buggered if the advice is to stay permie lol..

You do understand you can get binned from the gig almost effectively so 12 months doesn't mean 12 months etc.. You understand how you get paid, IR35, AWR, small business accounting and the fact you are a business and you have clients now and so on?

Sounds like a little research should be done, I think its all covered on here