Reply to: Contracting in the USA

[WordIsBond]

Wordisbond - thanks for this. This is definitely what I want to hear. Do you know this for sure? Is this written down in the visa terms somewhere?

I was responding to a comment that said you (personally) would be working for the US company. You wouldn't be, and they will not be the source of your personal income. The link that was being discussed talked about you having US source income. That's not really an issue in this case. As JB noted, the issue is things like whether you are considered to be doing productive work or not.

I don't know the answers for you. When I've gone to the States, it's only just to meet with potential clients, and the primary purpose of the visit is personal, anyway.

[stek]

No, it isn't written down anywhere to my knowledge. As I said, there's no distinction between different types of foreign companies so, providing you receive no income from a US source (and you wouldn't in this scenario), I don't think the income sourcing is the issue. The issue is about whether you're doing "productive work", and I think you probably would be doing productive work, at least for some of the period. Thus, if you were interpreting the rules very strictly, you'd probably need a B1 in lieu of an H-1B, but you'd be very unlucky to be pulled up on this, since the main purpose of your visit is to meet with your client. However, you aren't going to get the level of precision you want from a messaging board (or the US Embassy). You'll need an informed legal opinion. Bear in mind two things: 1) this sort of travel happens all the time without problems; and 2) never lie to a border official if they ask probing questions.

+1

AFAIK it's the same with UK and Schengen business visas which permit meetings, training etc but no actual productive work. The chances are being caught in the act are slim, but it's the IO's on entry who are the issue, they find evidence on your person of plans to do anything other than attend meeting etc, it's bounce time and a flag on your passport meaning no more visa waiver....

Don't think it doesn't happen.

[WordIsBond]

So you can go over there and do as much work for them as you want as long as your LTD company is the one getting invoiced?

Nice! Can you rent an apartment there too paid by your LTD company?

Yeah, you probably better spend some time thinking while out walking your dog.

You can start by thinking about what happens when the IRS decides your UK LTD co has a presence and is doing business in the US. Then, you personally are being paid from a US source, because YourCo has become a US source, and you also get to think about US corporation tax, Social Security, and a lot of other pleasantries. There's somewhat a difference between popping over for five days to provide a service and going there to live.

[nwmackem21]

Did you try calling the US embassy and ask?

Yes! If only it were that simple!

[jamesbrown]

Wordisbond - thanks for this. This is definitely what I want to hear. Do you know this for sure? Is this written down in the visa terms somewhere?

Obviously lying to a US immigration official is not an option, but I would have great peace of mind if I could read some wording to this effect somewhere official so I can be clear with my client and the four contractors that are also coming over with me.

No, it isn't written down anywhere to my knowledge. As I said, there's no distinction between different types of foreign companies so, providing you receive no income from a US source (and you wouldn't in this scenario), I don't think the income sourcing is the issue. The issue is about whether you're doing "productive work", and I think you probably would be doing productive work, at least for some of the period. Thus, if you were interpreting the rules very strictly, you'd probably need a B1 in lieu of an H-1B, but you'd be very unlucky to be pulled up on this, since the main purpose of your visit is to meet with your client. However, you aren't going to get the level of precision you want from a messaging board (or the US Embassy). You'll need an informed legal opinion. Bear in mind two things: 1) this sort of travel happens all the time without problems; and 2) never lie to a border official if they ask probing questions.

[sal]

Did you try calling the US embassy and ask?

[nwmackem21]

Remember, OP is not working for them or being paid by them. OP is a person wanting a visa to go there for a few days as a representative of a UK Ltd company, and will be paid by that Ltd company. That LtdCo will bill the US company for the services provided, and the LtdCo will remunerate OP for his time and travel expenses. But OP is not going to be receiving any income from the US co.

Wordisbond - thanks for this. This is definitely what I want to hear. Do you know this for sure? Is this written down in the visa terms somewhere?

Obviously lying to a US immigration official is not an option, but I would have great peace of mind if I could read some wording to this effect somewhere official so I can be clear with my client and the four contractors that are also coming over with me.

[northernladuk]

I might start don't some touristy things mixed in with the deployment (mainly to work with client) over there. Also I think I am restricted to how long I can stay under the 3 month visa wavier program.

You would then incur BiK as it would not be wholly and exclusively for the purpose of business. Just like any expense.. And most of it comes out of your pocket in the end anyway.

[KentDogWalker]

Why would you think you can't??

I might start don't some touristy things mixed in with the deployment (mainly to work with client) over there. Also I think I am restricted to how long I can stay under the 3 month visa wavier program.

[northernladuk]

So you can go over there and do as much work for them as you want as long as your LTD company is the one getting invoiced?

Nice! Can you rent an apartment there too paid by your LTD company?

Why would you think you can't??

[KentDogWalker]

Remember, OP is not working for them or being paid by them. OP is a person wanting a visa to go there for a few days as a representative of a UK Ltd company, and will be paid by that Ltd company. That LtdCo will bill the US company for the services provided, and the LtdCo will remunerate OP for his time and travel expenses. But OP is not going to be receiving any income from the US co.

So you can go over there and do as much work for them as you want as long as your LTD company is the one getting invoiced?

Nice! Can you rent an apartment there too paid by your LTD company?

[WordIsBond]

You've got to be careful with meetings though. It does mention meetings under the conferences and sales which I would think is different than a meeting you are billing the client for. By billing them you are working for them regardless of what you actually do there?

Remember, OP is not working for them or being paid by them. OP is a person wanting a visa to go there for a few days as a representative of a UK Ltd company, and will be paid by that Ltd company. That LtdCo will bill the US company for the services provided, and the LtdCo will remunerate OP for his time and travel expenses. But OP is not going to be receiving any income from the US co.

[jamesbrown]

You've got to be careful with meetings though. It does mention meetings under the conferences and sales which I would think is different than a meeting you are billing the client for. By billing them you are working for them regardless of what you actually do there?

You aren't allowed to receive payment from a US source, but there's no distinction between different types of foreign companies if that's what you're getting at(?) You can be remunerated by a foreign company for work conducted in the US. The main requirement (from a visa eligibility POV) is that it shouldn't be productive work. To do productive work, the OP would need a B1 in lieu of an H-1B (not the same as an ordinary B1, which has similar restrictions to the VWP - although I think they were talking about getting rid of this class of B1) or a full-blown employment visa, such as a regular H-1B.

[northernladuk]

You've got to be careful with meetings though. It does mention meetings under the conferences and sales which I would think is different than a meeting you are billing the client for. By billing them you are working for them regardless of what you actually do there?

[jamesbrown]

You cannot do "productive work" under the VWP and the constraints on a B visa are the same (applies when you're not eligible for the VWP). The meetings are no problem. The day of "delivery" likely is a problem, but you'll need expert advice. That said, you'd be very unlucky to get pulled up on this. Don't ever lie to the border agents though (or you won't be returning to the US).