Reply to: The old last moment bodyswerve

[northernladuk]

Did I say I believed it ? It was reported speech only.

You know I'd be only too happy to troll you into the middle of next week in General, NLUK, but as this is is Business/Contracts, try to keep it helpful, eh? I'd appreciate it if you would just leave the thread, to be honest.

But that paragraph is the root of the problem and why it's a bit of a poor thread. It's not trolling. You are starting with something that is contracting 101, the agent trying to up his comission. You are then trying to read in to it that the agent is dishonest or the client is flaky. It's just a ridiculous argument for a whole host of reasons and your perceived outcome is incorrect and will be inconsistent.

It just reads to me as a client/agent hating thread because you can't deal with fundamental part of contracting which is the negotiation.

[unixman]

And you believed that??

Did I say I believed it ? It was reported speech only.

You know I'd be only too happy to troll you into the middle of next week in General, NLUK, but as this is is Business/Contracts, try to keep it helpful, eh? I'd appreciate it if you would just leave the thread, to be honest.

[Cirrus]

Nearest experience I have

I was working in a small part of a very big name FS organisation. I interviewed a PM with a spot-on CV and I said "yes - let's take him".

Then I was told my boss didn't actually have the budget agreed.

Then I was told some one had gone back and offered him £100 or more a day less.

He'd lost a day's pay and come all the way from Cardiff to the East Midlands.

What would have happened if he had taken the lower rate? He would have been canned shortly afterwards. The place was shambolic and they ran out cash.

[northernladuk]

Shut up grumpy, it happens.

The agent typically lowballs you at the start if they're trying it on, although it happens less these days with the agencies more on flat fees/percentage cuts than having a budget for themselves from the client.

And you believe that??

OP has made too many assumptions and then is trying to tar a client with those assumptions. Might be specific to one client but it's certainly not indicative and should be used to judge a client before you've even got there. My client will offer less if a contractor isn't worth it but we can used in a different role. It will be a different rate from the rate card though, not 10% which makes me highly suspicious.

[LondonManc]

And you believed that??

Shut up grumpy, it happens.

The agent typically lowballs you at the start if they're trying it on, although it happens less these days with the agencies more on flat fees/percentage cuts than having a budget for themselves from the client.

[northernladuk]

The agent said: the client wants you, but they want you for 10% less (than previously agreed between you and the agent). Yes, it could either be the client being flaky or the agent dishonest. Who knows.

And you believed that??

[LondonManc]

Seems odd, you'd think they'd have accepted that when they went to hire a contractor!

In regards to my own situation, yes I suppose, but when I have a call like: what's your rate and I give a modest figure like £350-400 and they say "okay" then come back a day later with a different gig and say "I know you said £350-400 before, but this one is £292," I get suspicious - especially when it's a funny number like that.

Had a strange rate like that myself (but far bigger) - it's just the way that certain rate cards work.

It's when you get a round number like £300 that you'll get fluffed over. I've been put in at £350, interviewed at £350 and asked to do the same gig for £250 before now. It was simply the client manager trying to see what he'd get for £350 and then being told by his manager that he can't have the extra.

[unixman]

Yes. The client manager was an okay bloke, to give him his due, and he knew his technical onions too, he was just a bit grumpy by nature. Also it was smack in the middle of the recession.

[seanraaron]

Yes it happened with a large client. I couldn't tell whether the agent or client was to blame, but the client manager's grumpy comments during the contract (to the affect I was overpaid) made me suspect the client.

Seems odd, you'd think they'd have accepted that when they went to hire a contractor!

In regards to my own situation, yes I suppose, but when I have a call like: what's your rate and I give a modest figure like £350-400 and they say "okay" then come back a day later with a different gig and say "I know you said £350-400 before, but this one is £292," I get suspicious - especially when it's a funny number like that.

[unixman]

I'd blame the agent first, but with a smaller outfit I can believe the client trying it on as well.

Yes it happened with a large client. I couldn't tell whether the agent or client was to blame, but the client manager's grumpy comments during the contract (to the affect I was overpaid) made me suspect the client.

[unixman]

I didn't have that happen exactly. In my case it was one rate and then the gig fell through and a different one came up with the same agency and the rate was fifty quid lower. I had nothing else waiting in the wings and was a bit anxious so I took it anyway and didn't try to play hard. The client really had nothing to do with it that I could see, just the agency chancing it. In fact the client is paying nearly double what I'm getting (I think they told me that themselves)

Well it if was really a different contract (even with the same client), then a rate difference is understandable.

[seanraaron]

I'd blame the agent first, but with a smaller outfit I can believe the client trying it on as well.

[unixman]

I don't understand this at all. What has the rate negotiation got to do with flakey the client is? That negotiation is between you and the agent so no reflection on the client in many cases.

I'm not sure how any rate reflects a clients 'flakiness' whatever that means.

The agent said: the client wants you, but they want you for 10% less (than previously agreed between you and the agent). Yes, it could either be the client being flaky or the agent dishonest. Who knows.

[unixman]

Client hiring manager? Why is the client hiring manager talking to you about a contract between you and the agent?

Or is the Client hiring manager on a percentage?

Yes, I thought he was daft too. But he said it.

[seanraaron]

I didn't have that happen exactly. In my case it was one rate and then the gig fell through and a different one came up with the same agency and the rate was fifty quid lower. I had nothing else waiting in the wings and was a bit anxious so I took it anyway and didn't try to play hard. The client really had nothing to do with it that I could see, just the agency chancing it. In fact the client is paying nearly double what I'm getting (I think they told me that themselves).

So if this comes up for renewal I'll try getting something else lined up and go for a rate rise negotiation safe in the knowledge that the client isn't going to be an issue here.