Reply to: This is probably showing my naivety but...

[piotrkula]

Ha! Agencies are like car sales people. They promise you the world on a stick.

As soon as an unkonw number calls me and an agents introduces him self and then says, tell me about your previous roles. Sersiosly? I have to do this 10 times a day, sod off, you have my up to date CV with LinkedIN profile, with exactly what I did, plus my website that I update. Go and read it.

End of day you are the client for the agent, they shouldnt be wasting your (our) time. Most of the time they are generating leads for them selves.
example.

A very nice lady called me and we talked about all the big boys she recruits for and that she has 2 or 3 positions (first red flag, 2 or 3?.. maybe but unlikley)
She read my CV and appraised my skills (ok, this was a green flag, lets carry on)
She told me about the alleged places she has (cool!)
OK, before I can forward you, please send me ALL previous 5 places you worked for, names, telephone numbers for reference check (nuclear bomb explosion!)

No, I dont want my previous clients being bombarded with telephones and potentially the agent saying it was from me. We have enough spam. My references are on my CV, I have been owrking for atleast 5 years for 6, to 12 months terms, and can still afford to live, so that means I know what I am doing, or doing it correctly.

Serious Agent.
Hello, I have a role with global company X and your CV is excellent fit. Can you do interview in 3 days over phone?
Me: Yip!

3 Days later, quick phone interview, skill test over the phone.

5 days later. I am in office working

Thank you,
good bye.

[expat]

What good would that do them? If they're not on the PSL, they can't do anything with the CVs they have collected. In my experience companies only go off piste if the PSL can't provide any suitable candidates.

They can then offer "their" candidate to the Tier 1 agency.

I have even had imaginative agents "offer" me to other agents without even contacting me first. I suppose if they got a taker they would then contact me with "their" exciting opportunity - and I've got a parasite on my back.

[SueEllen]

What good would that do them? If they're not on the PSL, they can't do anything with the CVs they have collected. In my experience companies only go off piste if the PSL can't provide any suitable candidates.

They are trying their luck.

The same way agencies ring me and start talking about permanent jobs on less than the salary I had when I was last permie about 10 years ago.

[sociopath]

In circumstances like this agents/clients have a candidate already lined up so an advert is just a formality

So true. Sometimes its not what you know its who you know. It's important to build your reputation and professional network as this can lead to many opportunities.

Its also useful to understand your end clients internal processes and requirements as always an opportunity to get Your Co on their approved suppliers list. Yes you might need to fill some more paperwork and have additional things in place but its another path to get work coming in.

[Cirrus]

If you punt an advert out on jobserve other agencies will see it, work out who the client is and then phone them up. Or in the case of some agencies just put a similar ad up.

What good would that do them? If they're not on the PSL, they can't do anything with the CVs they have collected. In my experience companies only go off piste if the PSL can't provide any suitable candidates.

[meridian]

They try their luck.

I've been at many a client were an agent will ring a phone and ask for some random person then start a speel about wanting to talk to someone who does hiring. In the rare cases I've answered them I've managed to get them off the phone quickly. However if it's a permie they let them talk before the wise ones tell them they can't help them.

I get a few of these a month. I have "manager" in my LinkedIn profile plus the client's name so they ring through and try their luck. A simple "are you on the PSL" usually shuts them up.

The annoying ones are the ones that have worked out clientco's email address format and spam me every bloody day with details of their candidates, where their candidates have no relevance at all to any requirements we might have. I'm looking at you, Senitor. Straight into junk mail.

[SueEllen]

Generally speaking, companies don't hire contractors. It's managers.

If you have the name of a company, how would you find out who is thinking about contractors? You might get to some sort of HR or Purchasing function who know about live contract vacancies but they've already sent them out to their PSL.

They try their luck.

I've been at many a client were an agent will ring a phone and ask for some random person then start a speel about wanting to talk to someone who does hiring. In the rare cases I've answered them I've managed to get them off the phone quickly. However if it's a permie they let them talk before the wise ones tell them they can't help them.

[SueEllen]

Apart from shortage skills (Big Data, angular.js, Security, Mullti Digital etc) I can't see why you would harvest CVs. When any real job appears, you can just punt it out onto Jobserve. It's quicker than searching your database and you don't have to ring people up to find out if they are available.

If you punt an advert out on jobserve other agencies will see it, work out who the client is and then phone them up. Or in the case of some agencies just put a similar ad up.

[Cirrus]

I disagree about the 24 hours and it wasn't a gig.

I agree. The name of the game is to read through CVs until you've got 2-3 spot-on candidates who can you email over as quickly as possible because the hiring manager is getting 2-3 from each of two other agencies and he's not going to wait for all of them if he sees 2-3 spot on CVs. So you want to get in first. Neither the agent or the manager wants the best person (well some people will, but not a lot). They want someone who is just what they wanted and with 400 CVs crashing in like a tsunami that gets ticked fairly quickly.

That said, I do see jobs that look like 500 CV-ers but they are strangely generic and they reappear for a week or so. I don't know what that could be all about.

Apart from shortage skills (Big Data, angular.js, Security, Mullti Digital etc) I can't see why you would harvest CVs. When any real job appears, you can just punt it out onto Jobserve. It's quicker than searching your database and you don't have to ring people up to find out if they are available.

(I can see permanent candidates because it is much more difficult to get them, but contractors: they're ten-a-penny)

[Cirrus]

calling up companies randomly from business directories would yield better results than calling random contractors.

Generally speaking, companies don't hire contractors. It's managers.

If you have the name of a company, how would you find out who is thinking about contractors? You might get to some sort of HR or Purchasing function who know about live contract vacancies but they've already sent them out to their PSL.

I've shared a desk group with a hiring manager in the past. The phone just keeps ringing all day long. "Hi Casper, it's Giles from Custard - we're a new agency in Epping - wondered if you are looking for some Oracle DBAs today?"

It's tough being an agent. Not the work of course. That's trivial. It's the relentless battle of the Free Market -others trying to camp on your patch - and the exploitation of capitalism - your boss constantly reminding you you either grow the business or you're out.

Once upon a time I met my mate's wife's sister's boyfriend. He was an agent at a big name agency. At that time he ran about 17 contractors. Now if you think 17 times 10% - you can see why they keep fighting, and you can see why they drive around in BMWs.

[northernladuk]

I disagree about the 24 hours and it wasn't a gig. If they get 10+ CVs straight off the bat they are done and contractors could be sitting at desks 2 days later. The market is pretty quiet so plenty of people sitting on the bench watching jobserve all day. Onyx 6 years ago the agents were getting upwards of 100 CVs in the first few hours. Surely if they were harvesting CVS it would be up for longer??? I don't think it's as clear cut as some make out.

[SueEllen]

Problem is that its going the other way, my LI feed is full of pimps recruiting new pimps due to expansion as evidenced by constant connection requests from new pimps (who 2 weeks ago were on the perfume counter at Boots or asking if you wanted fries with that).

I just don't bother with them anymore, get roles from my network and its been 4 years now since I sent off a CV to an agency.

Actually loads of people try being agent and then give up or are sacked, hence the continuous recruitment. Sales jobs are hard. A lot of people try but only a few are successful.

I've actually heard some people a few times discussing on the bus both estate agency and recruitment roles. One reason why clients tell you, you mustn't discuss their business in public. I presume they thought other people who have professional qualifications don't take the bus, but in London people take any form of transport even if they are well-off if it's the quickest and easiest way to get from A to B.

Personally I still don't understand those phoning up asking for 2 references when using linkedin and even calling up companies randomly from business directories would yield better results than calling random contractors.

[SlipTheJab]

SueEllen, that's a pretty good summary. What it shows is this:
1. Working life is actually worse for an agent than for a contractor (don't worry, I'm not actually suggesting sympathy).
2. Agencies' contribution to the economy would be improved if 90% of agents just effed off leaving 10% to actually be agents instead of cold-callers and spoilers. Whereas contractors' contribution to the economy would be improved by exactly the same, i.e. by agents effing off, not by contractors doing so.

Problem is that its going the other way, my LI feed is full of pimps recruiting new pimps due to expansion as evidenced by constant connection requests from new pimps (who 2 weeks ago were on the perfume counter at Boots or asking if you wanted fries with that).

I just don't bother with them anymore, get roles from my network and its been 4 years now since I sent off a CV to an agency.

[Would rather not be named]

SueEllen, that's a pretty good summary. What it shows is this:
1. Working life is actually worse for an agent than for a contractor (don't worry, I'm not actually suggesting sympathy).
2. Agencies' contribution to the economy would be improved if 90% of agents just effed off leaving 10% to actually be agents instead of cold-callers and spoilers. Whereas contractors' contribution to the economy would be improved by exactly the same, i.e. by agents effing off, not by contractors doing so.

Sounds about right...in Bristol ftr can't comment on contractors etc but 350 agencies branching into all kinds of areas of work...maybe it's time looked for work elsewhere lol. But yeah most being poor, quantity not quality sounds about right for agents and vice versa for contractors.

[expat]

SueEllen, that's a pretty good summary. What it shows is this:
1. Working life is actually worse for an agent than for a contractor (don't worry, I'm not actually suggesting sympathy).
2. Agencies' contribution to the economy would be improved if 90% of agents just effed off leaving 10% to actually be agents instead of cold-callers and spoilers. Whereas contractors' contribution to the economy would be improved by exactly the same, i.e. by agents effing off, not by contractors doing so.