Reply to: Can't get a Government contract role because you don't have security clearance?

[Sockpuppet]

Best thing I ever got was my security clearance. I even got to the heady heights of being deep vetted (DV).

Although the questions were a stretch. I'd just left Uni. You want to know who I slept with and there names......can I phone a friend?

Now if I can just find someone is need of a warehouse that requires DV I will be sorted.

Cheers
Richard

[Eddie]

Security Clearance Issue

It's good to see someone trying to do something about this issue instead of simply moaning on about it.

It is very clear what is happening with any role which specifies security clearance or willing to submit yourself for clearance. The Agent merely filters out any candidates who do not have EXISTING security clearance. Why would you put someone forward who doesn't have it when there are lots of other candidates (possibly less suitable) but do have the clearance and hence have a better chance of being successful.

Forget complaining to Agents about this. The Cabinet Office route is worth a try because they have some influence over other Govt departnments and how they go about issuing contract roles to the market.

[malvolio]

So was I until fairly recently. All goes to show there are always exceptions that prove the rule....

[ratewhore]

But one of the reasons the debate I'm involved in is taking place is perhaps because they've twigged they're only seeing a part of the market - and given the generally useless performance they've been getting by recycling the same old faces, they may think it's time to be a bit radical and change the rules a bit.

Oy - I'm one of those faces...

[malvolio]

Not the point. They merely want to know if you are who you say you are at the lower levels, and how susceptible you are to being blackmailed or coerced at the higher ones (one reason why they don't care about a criminal record too much, as long as you tell them about it). Who else knows is largely irrelevant.

But one of the reasons the debate I'm involved in is taking place is perhaps because they've twigged they're only seeing a part of the market - and given the generally useless performance they've been getting by recycling the same old faces, they may think it's time to be a bit radical and change the rules a bit.

[errorista]

From a national security point of view isn't it a bit late to start asking who is advertising security cleared jobs?

It would appear to me that whole lists of SC personnel are already on databases which are outside the control of the MOD.

2p

[malvolio]

Actually I'm already chasing this from another angle - slowly, but we are talking about senior (actually, very senior) Civil Servants here...

Also, be a little selective in your random sample. It is justified to ask for clearance up front where the job is such that expert supervision cannot be given to ensure you do not see material you aren't supposed to - sysadmin, DBA, networking guru, that kind of thing. All the development roles, and almost all the management ones, do not fit that category.

Also note that HMG departments have proven and robust processes in place to manage uncleared staff on secure projects or they'd never recruit anyone. Where unnecessary clearance requirements are made, it is almost invariably from some other prime contractor, not HMG.

[Mordac]

As far as I'm concerned, the less failed Govt IT project on my CV, the better...

Just my 2p worth. (And that's about all it's worth)

[John]

Thanks for the info

Thanks for this information.

I have found that Govt works similar to MPs (the bigger the postbag the more attention the issue gets). I have printed off 10 jobs from jobserve specifying security clearance and put them in the post this afternoon.

If this is causing you a problem I would strongly urge others do do the same. Don't asume that others will do it for you. Get out your stamps tonight!!

[errorista]

Have you experienced difficulties getting a contract role with Government due to your lack of existing security clearance?

Are coming across adverts which state that security clearance is a prerequisite for being put forward and do not include the alternative option stating “ or be willing to undergo security clearance”?

If you are having these problems, send the details of the advert and any other evidence to the Cabinet Office, who are responsible for issuing guidelines on these matters to Government Departments:

Cabinet Office
Security Policy Division
3rd Floor
2 Little Smith Street
London
SW1P 3DH

I am not looking for SC contracts so don’t have personal experience of any difficulties with adverts requiring security clearance.

However I have taken an interest in the national security aspect of SC advertised jobs. I’m sure that it would be useful for some people to have a database of UK security cleared personnel. Job postings would be a very good way to quietly harvest data and compile such a database. The applicants may be out of work and in need of finances and this does not bode well for national security.

From the MOD website I am aware that these advertisements are 'not encouraged', although this does not stop them appearing.

Since I have written a contract postings database (Jobjock) which retains data for analysis I am in a position to list the details of all such contracts posted for the London area during the past seven months.

On this 'crude' search:
job_desc LIKE '%Security%' and
job_desc LIKE '%cleared%' and
job_desc NOT LIKE '%willing to undergo%'

My database turns up 857 hits.

I select two job descriptions at random:

#1
2nd Line Desktop Support
"A large Government customer has the need for a security cleared 2nd Line Desktop Support Engineer for work on a secure Government project. Responsibilities will require the break/fix of hardware and having corporate Service Desk experience over the past two years. Qualifications to MCSE/MCP is also desired but not essential. Similar experience is the key. Please call at your earliest convenience should you have the highest level of security clearance and experience to do this job. Due to the nature and urgency of this post, candidates holding or who have held high level security clearance in the past are most welcome to apply. Please note successful applicants will be required to be security cleared prior to appointment which can take up to 18 weeks. LA International Computer Consultants Ltd operates as an IT consultancy or as an employment business depending upon the precise nature of the work."

#2
Application Packager
"Ensure all packaging work is carried out according to pre-defined best practices and adhere to procedures in a controlled environment* Implement packages based on standards and install and configure any manner of desktop/server software* The Packager will need to understand the company\'s SLA and work with the team to ensure that we delivery a consistently high standard of service* Assist the Team Leader in maintaining a suitable and adequate packaging environment for the work being undertaken* Review all Packaging documents produced by projects and customer IT personnel to ensure they comply with standards and are fully supportable* Provide technical advice to customers and other out clients teams on request* Assist the Team Leader with the creation and implementation of new best practices, standards, processes & procedures that are required to aid the efficient running of day to day Business As Usual and Project work.* Essential Skills And Experience Candidates will need to be SC security cleared before undertaking the role. The skills required are Windows XP and 2000, Active Directory.General skills:* Will be required to produce documentation and follow our clients packaging standards* Willing to travel to various sites* Extensive experience of desktop operating systems and troubleshooting expertise* Ability to adapt to changing environments and assist in the review of working practices and standards*"

(Yes, these were the first two selected and were random as can be - dragged and clicked on full list)

Bernadette, please pm me if you are interested in a detailed breakdown of all these postings with dates and times as well as the names of agents/agencies.

error

[Daywalker]

The problem is two fold. One the agencies never seem to know what they are talking about, even if you have the clearance they ask you for things like;

"What is your certificate number?"

Don't have one, don't get one!

The "or be willing to undergo clearance", covers their arse. I noticed on the DVA FAQ's section that they are trying to get the process down to weeks rather than months, although this all depends on a concertive effort from the agencies and the DVA, for example I just completed DV after having SC, it was a simple upgrade, waited 4 months to get the forms and the agency sent me the wrong ones. A preferred and direct supplier to the client I work for. The DVA then call me and ask why I am going through SC again, I wasn't its DV. Oh!

Amazing the DVA had no idea what the progress was for DV as it goes through a different department, so back to square one, 6 months later!

When the right person finally received the application it took 2 months, and considering I am a contractor, was longer than most as had to give 5 references which were all personally interviewed, the concept of not having one boss for the last 6 years didn't compute.

It is a problem for contractors and always will be, agencies need to know the process and the process needs to be completed in a time frame that doesn't jeapordise a 6 month contract if it takes 6 months to get clearance!

Feels good to get it though, because in my opinion it definitely makes a difference, as since I have got it I have been in cleared environments.

[malvolio]

I just love the questions they ask

Are you, or have you ever been, a member of a terrorist organisation.

Have you ever been involved in espionage

Those were two of the REAL questions asked on the form that was being completed by one of the permies where I work at present.

Ah, the old double-bluff. If you are and say you aren't, they won't pass you because you lied on the form. And note that it doesn't say whose side the terrorist organisation was on, or who you weree spying for...

[mcquiggd]

Just join EDS, Wipro or Infosys.


Problem solved.

[dmini]

I just love the questions they ask

Are you, or have you ever been, a member of a terrorist organisation.

Have you ever been involved in espionage

Those were two of the REAL questions asked on the form that was being completed by one of the permies where I work at present.

[malvolio]

It gets more stupid than that. I have SC clearance valid until 2009, to resintate it (having been out of HMG work for two years) I merely need to resubmit the application form with the name of my new sponsor and the DVA will turn it round in a matter of days. Guess what? I can't get work requiring clearance, because the incompetent clowns in the agencies don't understand the rules they are not following.

You can understand people being twitchy about security these days, but to refuse to look at someone who is actually cleared to quite a high level is taking it a bit far...