Reply to: Jobserve/ Recruitment Agents

[Solid]

xeon

Hi xeon

I understand your frustrations. Unfortunately sometimes Jobserve causes more problems than it solves for both contractors and recruiters alike.

I run the resourcing department for a software testing consultancy, so have to use Jobserve to source associate contractors for our projects. Within 5 minutes of placing the advert, my inbox is swamped. I suspect that there is some sort of keyword trigger that automatically sends your CV when certain pre-determined words are placed in the ad. In my case "test" or "testing". Not all testing is the same, but I'll get hundreds of responses from people whether they have the right skills or not. Some auto reply, some don't read the ads carefully, some just are desperate for any job.

However, mostly I would blame unethical recruiters and the tactics they are willing to employ to make money. Some recruiters post jobs purely to obtain CVs, market info, etc. They are supposed to have a qualified job role before placing an ad, but the number of jobs being placed means this is almost impossible to police despite what the ad board company says.

Some will talk to you just to find out about who you are working for at the moment so they can socially engineer names from you at your present company.

Others will even ring the ads themselves trying to trick rival recruiters into thinking they are contractors in order to get the job details and try and place their own candidates there. I have even had a contractor who was accepting money to pass on details of our jobs to a recruitment company. They must think I was born yesterday. Needless to say we don't work with any individual who acts like this.

My advice. See if there is a specialist company that works in your area of expertise. Call them, don't just send your CV. Get to know someone there, build a relationship. They are far more likely to help you if they know you, rather than just being another CV in the pile. Do this with several agencies of similar calibre. The more irons and the more fires, the more likely you are to find work. If you see them advertising a job on Jobserve, call your consultant and tell him, don't just submit your CV. Have a conversation and ask them if they'd like your updated CV. It works far better. It gives you an opportunity to remind them of your skills and tell them why you should be submitted based on your understanding of the role and the skills you have. Don't be phoning every 5 minutes though. Noone likes a phone pest.

Just remember. In a perfect world we all get what we want. Unfortunately this world is far from perfect and there are unsavoury characters on both sides of the fence. You'll soon find out who you can trust and who you can't.

[Spacecadet]

This is not my experience. Even though I have shown myself to be trustworthy and capable to a client manager, whenever I have discussed the possibility of bidding for some, suitable sized, fixed price work, the response is always that my company is too small for the appropriate manager to accept my bid.

I've known one person manage to do this, but that's all.

tim

ok - I wasn't drawing any distinction between fixed price and by the hour work. My experience with direct has been by the hour.

Also the people who i've gone direct with have already known me in a proffesional capacity for 5+ years. No need for interviews, all they've needed is a recent CV of mine to keep the board happy.

[tim123]

As i said, If you KNOW the decision makers. KNOWING implies some trust, so yeah they will trust your Joe Bloggs computing one man band company enough because they know and trust YOU.

This is not my experience. Even though I have shown myself to be trustworthy and capable to a client manager, whenever I have discussed the possibility of bidding for some, suitable sized, fixed price work, the response is always that my company is too small for the appropriate manager to accept my bid.

I've known one person manage to do this, but that's all.

tim

[Spacecadet]

Whatever the actual legal status of your company, the fact is that 'one man bands' are not perceived as genuine businesses by large companies and as such are dealt with differently.

And it's generally HR or Procurement acting on advice from company lawyers - most large companies want to push the risk onto a supplier that they actually trust. Who would you trust ' John Doe Computing Ltd' or an established PLC recruitment firm that they've done due diligence on?

As i said, If you KNOW the decision makers. KNOWING implies some trust, so yeah they will trust your Joe Bloggs computing one man band company enough because they know and trust YOU.

[interested]

If you personally know the decision makers then its not a problem. And its B2B so why should HR get involved?

Whatever the actual legal status of your company, the fact is that 'one man bands' are not perceived as genuine businesses by large companies and as such are dealt with differently.

And it's generally HR or Procurement acting on advice from company lawyers - most large companies want to push the risk onto a supplier that they actually trust. Who would you trust ' John Doe Computing Ltd' or an established PLC recruitment firm that they've done due diligence on?

[errorista]

How about outside the London area for the next version

Yep, this would be good to do. Im afraid I still have no contract so have not been able to fund any immediate expansion of the hosting service. This is why Ive restricted it to London.

This may soon change in any case as I have been talking with someone who might be able to host the site free without my having to place banner ads.



Ill keep you posted.

error

[Spacecadet]

One of the dilemmas in striving for direct contacts, is most or all of the big firms do not allow this. They all use intermediate preferred agencies, so even if you apply direct (or are introduced by an existing employee/contractor), the company's HR will force you through their preferred agency. Of course, this agency takes a reduced cut, but that's still 4 or 5% out of your pocket.

I've done this at several banking clients, where I've introduced contractors directly to IT management, only to have them pushed through agencies anyway.

If you personally know the decision makers then its not a problem. And its B2B so why should HR get involved?

[ChimpMaster]

I didn't make that very clear

I got an agency gig for six months, it was as that was coming to renewal that i got the direct contract

One of the dilemmas in striving for direct contacts, is most or all of the big firms do not allow this. They all use intermediate preferred agencies, so even if you apply direct (or are introduced by an existing employee/contractor), the company's HR will force you through their preferred agency. Of course, this agency takes a reduced cut, but that's still 4 or 5% out of your pocket.

I've done this at several banking clients, where I've introduced contractors directly to IT management, only to have them pushed through agencies anyway.

[Spacecadet]

Only six months? Fast work...

I didn't make that very clear

I got an agency gig for six months, it was as that was coming to renewal that i got the direct contract

[MarillionFan]

"I sent a formal complaint re. one agency to REC but suprise suprise the agency isn't registered I will follow up with the dti... The cowboys need to feel the heat if they think lying, harassment etc.. is ok."

Mmm. That would have gone straight in the bin. Live with it, move on is my advice. Agents are w-nkers, plain & simple.

[Phoenix]

I do appreciate feedback and ideas for the next version release. (You need to register with valid email address)

How about outside the London area for the next version

[xeon]

Thanks for the responses, I have only applied for jobs where there appears to be a good fit. I agree that agents probably get swamped with cv's but its the lies I cannot abide. Every other industry/ business has regulations they must comply with yet many agents act like cowboys and get away with it.

I do not think jobserve per se is the problem, it is the only site offering 'current' contractor vacancies for a start, albeit false ones. I think its the nature of modern recruitment that's the problem being on par with estate agents in my opinion.

As for rolling with the punches, living with it etc. Well I think that's ok for some but I believe that this sort of acceptance encourages dubious practises that ultimately hurt the independents so I would rather do something about it.

I sent a formal complaint re. one agency to REC but suprise suprise the agency isn't registered I will follow up with the dti... The cowboys need to feel the heat if they think lying, harassment etc.. is ok.

[MarillionFan]

"I will come around for the insurance, after all.... you don't want soft cushions to fall on you feet do you?" ? I dont understand?

Have to disagree with a part of Lukes posting.

Do phone the agent, normally 5 minutes after sending CV.

[Paddy]

U have to roll with the punches Im afraid.

Where is your new shop? WHEN WILL IT BE OPEN?

I will come around for the insurance, after all.... you don't want soft cushions to fall on you feet do you?

[XLMonkey]

Sure enough, got one 6 months after starting contracting, no need for an interview or CV's or agencies.

Only six months? Fast work...

Xeon, the main reason clients use agents is that they find the idea of trolling their way through hundreds of CVs (most of which will be completely inappropriate) to be soooooo bad, that they would rather pass the task on to someone who is prepared to deal with any old s**t in exchange for money.

Which is where agents come in. If you don't believe me, try posting a contract opportunity on jobserve and then see how many responses you get. As I occasionally have to find people to subcontract work to, I know from bitter experience what a pain it can be.

Getting direct contracts and managing your pipeline is definitely the way to go, but it ain't easy.... your boycott on jobserve will probably hurt you a lot more than it will hurt them.