Reply to: Renewal question

[SpontaneousOrder]

if he is indeed r35 caught then they could be called wages.

[northernladuk]

Does he? AYSYCOTBAC?

Ohh.. Very good spot! I hang my head in shame. I could try and argue it's his money that filters through to eventually pay your wage but I've been caught bang to rights.

[Ticktock]

He pays the wages.

Does he? AYSYCOTBAC?

[northernladuk]

He can refuse anything he wants really. He pays the wages. I'd be surprised if there is nothing in the contract about it. He has a budget to work to do he has justified limits he can't exceed. I don't think this alone can be called D&C. He's managing you to predefined limits. There are other factors that might ruin that argument but managing you closely with agreed boundaries isn't really an IR35 issue. Giving you new stuff above and beyond the contract is however.

[amc88]

Yeah. I've submitted another topic as my client prevents me from claiming more than 8 hours' time a day - I'm not too clued up on the 'legality' of this but I doubt he can refuse justified time, which makes me feel even more like he's pushing me into IR35. He's moulding me into a permie, and this is something else I'm going to talk to my agent about otherwise I'm out

[northernladuk]

Taking on responsibilities outside of your contract is a big flag for IR35 you know?

[amc88]

Thanks for your replies. My contract is via an agency, so as I'm due for renewal in 4 weeks I'll get in touch with them now and see what they can do for me; that'll give us enough time to discuss things I'm sure. I wasn't renewed until a week prior to my last contract end date (without any discussion of it beforehand - I just received an email with a different start/end date and I signed it) and I'm expecting this to play the same. I am happy/prepared to walk for another gig if I need to tell him that

I have a list of justifications for a rate increase based on what I've taken on and my new responsibilities outside of my contract rather than just "well, other people are offering more money elsewhere, so I want more", so I'll present these to my agent and go from there

[psychocandy]

Seriously, if you had made it up you might not look as stupid as you do.

Do you ever think it is your complete ignorance to how clients do business and how they come to the decisions that drives this blind hate, and generally very poor attitude towards them? You sound more like a moaning permie that doesn't want to understand anything and happy in their own little bubble as long as they can moan. Sad thing is you then splurge this ignorant thinking on here.

You try and tell us what clients think and it's just ignorant crap. There is no reasonable thought about what they do and why. It's just ridiculous... really.

Either that and do know and you are just trolling... BIDI.

NLUK - you need to chill a bit today....

My opinion is as valid as yours whether you like it, agree to it, or not. I've been contracting almost 20 years so I think I have a right to an opinion on what I've seen.

[northernladuk]

yes

Seriously, if you had made it up you might not look as stupid as you do.

Do you ever think it is your complete ignorance to how clients do business and how they come to the decisions that drives this blind hate, and generally very poor attitude towards them? You sound more like a moaning permie that doesn't want to understand anything and happy in their own little bubble as long as they can moan. Sad thing is you then splurge this ignorant thinking on here.

You try and tell us what clients think and it's just ignorant crap. There is no reasonable thought about what they do and why. It's just ridiculous... really.

Either that and do know and you are just trolling... BIDI.

[psychocandy]

Do you make this stuff up?

yes

[northernladuk]

Never met a client yet who thinks the rate the contractors starts on needs ever to be increased.....

MOST see the huge rate (in their eyes) and will baulk at paying even 1p more ever. Which is why the start off on low rate and we'll increase later idea is crap - never going to happen.

Threaten to not renew is the only bet.

Do you make this stuff up?

[psychocandy]

Never met a client yet who thinks the rate the contractors starts on needs ever to be increased.....

MOST see the huge rate (in their eyes) and will baulk at paying even 1p more ever. Which is why the start off on low rate and we'll increase later idea is crap - never going to happen.

Threaten to not renew is the only bet.

[northernladuk]

Well there are two areas to think about.. Cutting the agents commission or getting the client to pay more. I'd forget the latter as that will only work if you are invaluable as they would have to pull string at some heady hights to get budget approval so that isn't going to work at this level. Leave your client well out it.

Then other way is to reduce you agents cut. If he's on a fixed margin that isn't going to work. You are only going to get a couple of percent out of him and that's only if he is convinced you will not renew if you don't get it. No half arsed attempts or blatant bluffing.

Don't believe the rate in the ad is what your are going to get either. It isn't uncommon for them to advertise high to get best people and then come back with some story about someone doing it cheaper etc

[SpontaneousOrder]

Hi everyone,

Been a ghost on here for a while and now I need some help

I've been contracting for a year now, coming up to my second 6th month renewal which my client has already (verbally) said he'll renew

Last time I got renewed I just went with it; kept the same rate, no fuss, no discussions, just signed away and stayed on for 6 months more

This time around I'm looking at getting another contract elsewhere, as my agent claims my rate is the higher rate that's on the market (£18ph - Desktop Support Engineer) which I know is fluff as I have ads coming through offering at least £150 up to £200 per day which I'm getting interest from, however they're typically immediate or short-notice starts and I've got 4 weeks left on my current contract

So what my question is, how would I approach this; asking for a rate increase (if I decide to stay on with my current client)? Do I talk to the client first, or approach the agent? Is there a typical strategy to use when asking for a rate increase?

Thanks in advance for your help

Your contract likely says that you're prohibited from discussing rates with the client. What they pay the agent and what the agent pays you are two completely separate deals. So like Bolshie said, talk to the agent unless you have the right kind of relationship with your client that they won't cause you trouble.

[BolshieBastard]

Normally, if you're via an agent, you tell the agent you want an increase. You can say you want it because you're

underpaid
better than good at your job
have introduced a smarter way of working blah, blah, blah.

Or, you can just say, you want more money or you're off and are quite happy to go without work for a while to secure the rate you want.

But, if you're going to ask for a rate increase, you've got to be prepared to refuse any extension offered if the agent comes back and says no deal.

Otherwise you look a bit like a mammory gland (or two!).