In the UK we currently have a contract that applies to both scenarios.
In the longer term I am planning to get separate documents as our obligations differ between the two statuses so it will be clearer for all parties.
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
Collapse
You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
- You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
- You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
- If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Logging in...
Previously on "Different contract as a result of opting in"
Collapse
-
Originally posted by kempc23 View PostSpontaneousOrder: How do you know? Have you worked out which agency I am talking about somehow? That is great if so. I will PM you the agency name just in case there are any issues here. Its the below clause I am most worried about.
All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from
Leave a comment:
-
SpontaneousOrder: How do you know? Have you worked out which agency I am talking about somehow? That is great if so. I will PM you the agency name just in case there are any issues here. Its the below clause I am most worried about.
All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by kempc23 View PostI am due to start a new contract shortly. I made a deliberate decision to stay opted in of the conduct of employment agencies regulations where I can for one very specific reason. If I want to supply services directly to an end client at some point in the future after a contract finishes, I do not want to be prevented from doing so for 6-12 months.
I had been interviewed and verbally offered a contract, which I intend to accept. The agency asked me to confirm I wanted to opt out, which I said I didnt. They then replied that it would put me in IR35 and I would need to pay income tax on my earnings. I know this is not true, and also confirmed this with my accountant. I also pointed out that as we had not discussed it prior to being introduced to the client, it would not be possible to opt out anyway.
I have now been sent the contract to sign, and having now spent some time reviewing the contract, both the main contract and the schedule are clearly marked as an 'opt-in' contract. In general it seems a fairly standard business to business contract, and includes the typical contract terms which intend to place it out of IR35 (MOO, substitution clause, flexibility on hours etc) but there are a couple of terms that I have not come across before, and which looks questionable-
All payments hereunder will be made to the Contractor, and the Contractor shall be responsible for any PAYE Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions, statutory entitlements such as holiday pay and statutory sick pay, and any other taxes and deductions payable in respect of its Personnel.
All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from.
The contract also refers to "the contractor" rather than the company, which seems a bit odd and none of my contracts have been like this.
Has anyone else her come across the situation where they are given a different contract as a result of opting in? It certainly is a different contract as it makes specific reference to not having any restrictions on working direct after the end of the contract, and also that payment will be made regardless of whether a signed timesheet is received. I do not think whether I sign this one or a different one would have any impact whatsoever on my actual working practices, so maybe I am being a bit paranoid. As the opt out is likely to be invalid now in any case, I wonder if I should just request the 'opt-out' version of the contract instead. I would usually get the contract reviewed by InTouch, but they no longer do this as they say that working practices are far more important than the terms of the contract.
Leave a comment:
-
...
"All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from."
It is this type of clause that would worry me and without seeing the entire contract, there may be many more.
I understand that InTouch may no longer be reviewing but there are a couple of good ones above that still do and will negotiate on your behalf.
Leave a comment:
-
Thanks for the advice Tractor. IR35 is not something I have usually had to consider much in the past, mainly because I have provided sub-contractors for clients over the past few years, and also had contracts to provide resources for other clients that I was not directly providing my own services for. So quite clearly in business on my own account.
I wonder if I am worrying about this too much, stated frankly, only an idiot would think I was a disguised employee with the work that I do. I can also collect plenty of evidence of working practices that show me to be outside of IR35 over the course of this six month contract.
Leave a comment:
-
No. As I stated above, I usually would get any contract checked by InTouch, but they no longer do this and prefer to look to working practices instead of the words of the contract.
Leave a comment:
-
.....
Originally posted by kempc23 View PostI am due to start a new contract shortly. I made a deliberate decision to stay opted in of the conduct of employment agencies regulations where I can for one very specific reason. If I want to supply services directly to an end client at some point in the future after a contract finishes, I do not want to be prevented from doing so for 6-12 months.
I had been interviewed and verbally offered a contract, which I intend to accept. The agency asked me to confirm I wanted to opt out, which I said I didnt. They then replied that it would put me in IR35 and I would need to pay income tax on my earnings. I know this is not true, and also confirmed this with my accountant. I also pointed out that as we had not discussed it prior to being introduced to the client, it would not be possible to opt out anyway.
I have now been sent the contract to sign, and having now spent some time reviewing the contract, both the main contract and the schedule are clearly marked as an 'opt-in' contract. In general it seems a fairly standard business to business contract, and includes the typical contract terms which intend to place it out of IR35 (MOO, substitution clause, flexibility on hours etc) but there are a couple of terms that I have not come across before, and which looks questionable-
All payments hereunder will be made to the Contractor, and the Contractor shall be responsible for any PAYE Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions, statutory entitlements such as holiday pay and statutory sick pay, and any other taxes and deductions payable in respect of its Personnel.
All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from.
The contract also refers to "the contractor" rather than the company, which seems a bit odd and none of my contracts have been like this.
Has anyone else her come across the situation where they are given a different contract as a result of opting in? It certainly is a different contract as it makes specific reference to not having any restrictions on working direct after the end of the contract, and also that payment will be made regardless of whether a signed timesheet is received. I do not think whether I sign this one or a different one would have any impact whatsoever on my actual working practices, so maybe I am being a bit paranoid. As the opt out is likely to be invalid now in any case, I wonder if I should just request the 'opt-out' version of the contract instead. I would usually get the contract reviewed by InTouch, but they no longer do this as they say that working practices are far more important than the terms of the contract.
The best and only way to resolve the issues you describe are to subscribe to IPSE if you are not already a member and to have the contract professionally reviewed by one of the organisations that review and negotiate changes on your behalf. This way, you have a degree of separation between you and the numpties and the issues will be resolved lawyer to lawyer. The biggest advantage here is that their lawyer can not even attempt to pull the wool over your lawyer's eyes. They would be foolish to even try.
The quicker you arrange this the better. I cannot remember which of the professionals do the negotiating for you but a search will do the trick or you can wait for someone to come along in a minute and refresh our memories
Leave a comment:
-
Different contract as a result of opting in
I am due to start a new contract shortly. I made a deliberate decision to stay opted in of the conduct of employment agencies regulations where I can for one very specific reason. If I want to supply services directly to an end client at some point in the future after a contract finishes, I do not want to be prevented from doing so for 6-12 months.
I had been interviewed and verbally offered a contract, which I intend to accept. The agency asked me to confirm I wanted to opt out, which I said I didnt. They then replied that it would put me in IR35 and I would need to pay income tax on my earnings. I know this is not true, and also confirmed this with my accountant. I also pointed out that as we had not discussed it prior to being introduced to the client, it would not be possible to opt out anyway.
I have now been sent the contract to sign, and having now spent some time reviewing the contract, both the main contract and the schedule are clearly marked as an 'opt-in' contract. In general it seems a fairly standard business to business contract, and includes the typical contract terms which intend to place it out of IR35 (MOO, substitution clause, flexibility on hours etc) but there are a couple of terms that I have not come across before, and which looks questionable-
All payments hereunder will be made to the Contractor, and the Contractor shall be responsible for any PAYE Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions, statutory entitlements such as holiday pay and statutory sick pay, and any other taxes and deductions payable in respect of its Personnel.
All Fees payable by ReThink to the Contractor (.......) are gross and shall be payable net of any deductions that ReThink may now or in the future be required by law to deduct there from.
The contract also refers to "the contractor" rather than the company, which seems a bit odd and none of my contracts have been like this.
Has anyone else her come across the situation where they are given a different contract as a result of opting in? It certainly is a different contract as it makes specific reference to not having any restrictions on working direct after the end of the contract, and also that payment will be made regardless of whether a signed timesheet is received. I do not think whether I sign this one or a different one would have any impact whatsoever on my actual working practices, so maybe I am being a bit paranoid. As the opt out is likely to be invalid now in any case, I wonder if I should just request the 'opt-out' version of the contract instead. I would usually get the contract reviewed by InTouch, but they no longer do this as they say that working practices are far more important than the terms of the contract.Tags: None
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Leave a comment: