Reply to: Working abroad in EU - the perils of SC & Vetting upon your return

[SueEllen]

Another permie colleague was only validated for 2 years (AIUI permies get 10 years, contractors 5) and was not allowed to work unsupervised on the Police system we looked after for some reason.

He probably had some minor offences way back in his past....

[ProjectManager]

Privet....

It was issued by the permieco I was working for at the time, from their vetting officer, valid to date 10 years into the future but the usual blurb about if things change tell them etc. I don't have a scanned copy of it, but it's in my filing cabinet if I get time I'll scan it and blur out the details. Never saw my mate's letter, he just told me. Another permie colleague was only validated for 2 years (AIUI permies get 10 years, contractors 5) and was not allowed to work unsupervised on the Police system we looked after for some reason.

Thanks a lot in advance, Stek, molodec

[stek]

Privet Dorogoy Stek,

Could you please elaborate on the above mentioned letter?

Obviously I have never seen such a letter and would like to understand a bit more on the matter, what sort of data is there, who issued it and why it has been sent to you and your buddy?

After reading the sticky I was under the impression that when you are SC cleared for a given role, only the employer has all the SC related paper work and if I remember correctly you are only allowed to note something like a ref number...

It is all a bit blurry to me, hence the above questions.

Thanks s lot in advance,
George

Privet....

It was issued by the permieco I was working for at the time, from their vetting officer, valid to date 10 years into the future but the usual blurb about if things change tell them etc. I don't have a scanned copy of it, but it's in my filing cabinet if I get time I'll scan it and blur out the details. Never saw my mate's letter, he just told me. Another permie colleague was only validated for 2 years (AIUI permies get 10 years, contractors 5) and was not allowed to work unsupervised on the Police system we looked after for some reason.

[ProjectManager]

... he only got a 2 year clearance letter (I got 10 years - woo!).

Privet Dorogoy Stek,

Could you please elaborate on the above mentioned letter?

Obviously I have never seen such a letter and would like to understand a bit more on the matter, what sort of data is there, who issued it and why it has been sent to you and your buddy?

After reading the sticky I was under the impression that when you are SC cleared for a given role, only the employer has all the SC related paper work and if I remember correctly you are only allowed to note something like a ref number...

It is all a bit blurry to me, hence the above questions.

Thanks s lot in advance,
George

[stek]

I don't think they even bothered to try clear him.

With his xenophobia they made a good move.

If he ended up working alongside cleared French, German, Estonian or people from other countries that are friendly to the UK he could cause a problem....

There was a bloke on here who had a Chinese girlfriend a while back who was upset he wasn't cleared either.

People need to get it into their heads just because you have a British passport, no criminal record and have been a UK resident most of your life doesn't mean you have the right to be cleared.

+1

My SC ran out last (with Russian partner in tow) November, now the higher-ups decided to clear me on the off chance (might be useful) despite me being a contractor but now it seems my Russian partner is problem despite the fact she is now British too, and they cleared me with here previously 4 years ago, as of a month ago - it's obvious that despite claims made here they don't know their arses from their collective elbows, they didn't know I was previously cleared a year ago nor the know I was PV'd for top secret nuclear tritium production in the 90's.

NSA is just as incompetent as any other UK agency.

Am I bothered? Not really - it's obvious they DON'T know everything, you can pull the wool over their eyes, and aside from that with me having a Russian gf not willing to give up her Russianness, sod it.

Gov contracts are rare and tulip - no WFH, and I'm certain the fact me bleating about from here will make no difference due to their general incompetence.

But if you want it, and you've any issues, just lie and make sure there's no real documented evidence against, u'll be fine.

[SueEllen]

Ahh, so you're bitter after being turned down for SC??

I don't think they even bothered to try clear him.

With his xenophobia they made a good move.

If he ended up working alongside cleared French, German, Estonian or people from other countries that are friendly to the UK he could cause a problem....

There was a bloke on here who had a Chinese girlfriend a while back who was upset he wasn't cleared either.

People need to get it into their heads just because you have a British passport, no criminal record and have been a UK resident most of your life doesn't mean you have the right to be cleared.

[stek]

Fictional characters ( for the benefit of the poster ) who have
been born and bred in the UK and who's family has served
this country well in both world wars & who's ancestry dates
back to the Norman conquest.

Obviously John & Sheila are amazed that their time abroad
could raise doubts viz a vis SC clearance with a prospective
employer. Particularly when the husband of the Estonian
family who moved in 6 years ago ( down the road ) see no
barriers for him being put forward for SC Security clearance,
on account that he's an EU citizen with the right to live & work
in the UK and has been living and working ( in other jobs )
for over 5 years in Britain.

Ahh, so you're bitter after being turned down for SC??

My British Indian buddy got SC after a two year stint in Zürich, but he only got a 2 year clearance letter (I got 10 years - woo!).

[stek]

He's making up a scenario because some IT agents are telling him he is not eligible to apply for security cleared roles as he's lived abroad for a couple of years.

He can apply but it's wise to not bother with IT agents who make up their own understanding of the vetting requirements then claim it's what the client/employer said when challenged.

I know! I was being deliberately thick!

[Tightfit]

Who's John and Sheila?

Fictional characters ( for the benefit of the poster ) who have
been born and bred in the UK and who's family has served
this country well in both world wars & who's ancestry dates
back to the Norman conquest.

Obviously John & Sheila are amazed that their time abroad
could raise doubts viz a vis SC clearance with a prospective
employer. Particularly when the husband of the Estonian
family who moved in 6 years ago ( down the road ) see no
barriers for him being put forward for SC Security clearance,
on account that he's an EU citizen with the right to live & work
in the UK and has been living and working ( in other jobs )
for over 5 years in Britain.

[SueEllen]

Who's John and Sheila?

He's making up a scenario because some IT agents are telling him he is not eligible to apply for security cleared roles as he's lived abroad for a couple of years.

He can apply but it's wise to not bother with IT agents who make up their own understanding of the vetting requirements then claim it's what the client/employer said when challenged.

[stek]

Of course all the other caveats apply to obtaining SC Security Clearance
apply - but you have gone .

That is were looking at a John or a Sheila, who have decided to work
abroad ( EU ) for a couple of years ( be it contract or Permanent )
before returning to their home in Britain, in order to resume full time
employment ( whether Perm or Contract ) in the UK.
Therefore in the topic scenario were assuming that John or Shelia
would have passed all the other tests ( no problem ) - the only
mark against them ( if you can call it that ) is that they have lived
& worked in one of the EU countries for the past two years.

So the only question that remains to be answered is will John &
Sheila be eligible for an SC Security job ( knowing full well they
would tick all the other boxes )

Of course the only caveats might be whether John or Sheila
have been SC Security cleared in the past before working
abroad. So the question concerns those people who have never
been SC cleared before ( during their working life ) no doubt
because they have only worked in previous roles where SC
wasn't required - and of course those people who have been
SC cleared in the past ( more than 5 years ago )

Who's John and Sheila?

[Tightfit]

There is no need to dissect anything.

IT agencies make up the rules because they want people to get the role as quickly as possible so they can make money.

The traceability and residence criteria are just the start of getting clearance. There are other factors like relationships, financial problems etc.

Even with the basic criteria you stated like credit checking it's not clear cut. For example a 20 something year old who can't be credit referenced wouldn't be regarded as suspicious, but a 40 something year old might be.

There are four credit reference agencies in the UK. Three are used by most companies to check people and the fourth is used if there is anything really suspicious about you. You may not have a credit record recorded on all three especially the one the vetting agency uses to reference you.

I've seen permie adverts placed with an IT agency for a company I know well who state you need to hold clearance before applying for the job. However if you apply direct this isn't stated in the criteria - you just need to be able to gain clearance. So if you are looking for a permanent job and fit the basic vetting criteria, then work out who the company is and apply direct.

In the past I've seen adverts placed by IT agents for companies I can guess who they are due to the location demanding higher clearance than you would actually need to work there i.e. SC clearance when you need a DBS check.

Some companies have now wised up to this and actually check the adverts they place with the IT agencies. This means only when you apply and the agent phones you up do they tell you if you need to be credit checked, cleared or whatever. Others are now placing their adverts themselves.

If some of the people I know who work/contact in cleared jobs had gone through certain IT agents they would have never got the roles as they would have breached their made up criteria.

Of course all the other caveats apply to obtaining SC Security Clearance
apply - but you have gone .

That is were looking at a John or a Sheila, who have decided to work
abroad ( EU ) for a couple of years ( be it contract or Permanent )
before returning to their home in Britain, in order to resume full time
employment ( whether Perm or Contract ) in the UK.
Therefore in the topic scenario were assuming that John or Shelia
would have passed all the other tests ( no problem ) - the only
mark against them ( if you can call it that ) is that they have lived
& worked in one of the EU countries for the past two years.

So the only question that remains to be answered is will John &
Sheila be eligible for an SC Security job ( knowing full well they
would tick all the other boxes )

Of course the only caveats might be whether John or Sheila
have been SC Security cleared in the past before working
abroad. So the question concerns those people who have never
been SC cleared before ( during their working life ) no doubt
because they have only worked in previous roles where SC
wasn't required - and of course those people who have been
SC cleared in the past ( more than 5 years ago )

[SueEllen]

Ok - so let's dissect the above guidelines and see how it
affects Contractors and Perms out 'grazing the fields of Euroland'

There is no need to dissect anything.

IT agencies make up the rules because they want people to get the role as quickly as possible so they can make money.

The traceability and residence criteria are just the start of getting clearance. There are other factors like relationships, financial problems etc.

Even with the basic criteria you stated like credit checking it's not clear cut. For example a 20 something year old who can't be credit referenced wouldn't be regarded as suspicious, but a 40 something year old might be.

There are four credit reference agencies in the UK. Three are used by most companies to check people and the fourth is used if there is anything really suspicious about you. You may not have a credit record recorded on all three especially the one the vetting agency uses to reference you.

I've seen permie adverts placed with an IT agency for a company I know well who state you need to hold clearance before applying for the job. However if you apply direct this isn't stated in the criteria - you just need to be able to gain clearance. So if you are looking for a permanent job and fit the basic vetting criteria, then work out who the company is and apply direct.

In the past I've seen adverts placed by IT agents for companies I can guess who they are due to the location demanding higher clearance than you would actually need to work there i.e. SC clearance when you need a DBS check.

Some companies have now wised up to this and actually check the adverts they place with the IT agencies. This means only when you apply and the agent phones you up do they tell you if you need to be credit checked, cleared or whatever. Others are now placing their adverts themselves.

If some of the people I know who work/contact in cleared jobs had gone through certain IT agents they would have never got the roles as they would have breached their made up criteria.

[Tightfit]

Here it is - straight from the 'Vetting Agency' namely
Vetting enquiries @fco.gov.uk

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding maintaining eligibility for SC Clearance.

You need to direct your query to your Sponsor / Employer.
As a guide, you are required to have a
footprint in the UK for a five year period, within
that time you must be resident in the UK for two
years, of which twelve months must be
consecutive."

Yours Sincerely

vettingenquiries@fco.gov.uk | FCO Services - Home

Ok - so let's dissect the above guidelines and see how it
affects Contractors and Perms out 'grazing the fields of Euroland'

By maintaining a footprint in the UK for a 5 year period. I assume they are talking about uninterrupted entries on the Credit Reference Agencies ( Experian & Equifax ) credit reports. Therefore so long as the British Expat hasn't closed any of he's British Bank accounts, retained hes credit cards and maintains a house & mortgage in the UK. Then that's - that box ticked.

Even better the Eurojaunt Contractor or Permie, could
still legally remain on the UK Electoral Roll by registering
as a British Overseas voter ( by referring to he's previous
home address ) something all British Expats are entitled
to do for upto 15 years after leaving the UK.

Then where they go on to say 'you must be resident in the UK for two years, of which twelve months must be consecutive.'

Ok - therefore if a British contractor or permie took
a job for say 2 years in France, Germany or Spain
before returning to the UK - then so long as the rest
of the 5 year period, he was resident and working in
the UK. Then that's another box ticked for SC
eligibility, upon he's return to British shores.

Perhaps the only thing left out of the Vetting Agency feedback
are criminal convictions abroad. As UK Vetting no doubt don't
look further than the UK PNC Criminal record check but there
again - many government departments and agencies are
usually satisfied by the former British Expat producing what's
called a Police Certificate of Good Conduct in the European
country they were residing in.

Of course if anyone on the forum knows better or I'm
missing something, in my interpretations of the Vetting
Agency feedback, then please let us know.

[ProjectManager]

Here it is - straight from the 'Vetting Agency' namely
Vetting enquiries @@fco.gov.uk

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding maintaining eligibility for SC Clearance.

You need to direct your query to your Sponsor / Employer.
As a guide, you are required to have a
footprint in the UK for a five year period, within
that time you must be resident in the UK for two
years, of which twelve months must be
consecutive."

Yours Sincerely

vettingenquiries@fco.gov.uk | FCO Services - Home

Thank you, sir, one mystery now solved!