Reply to: Strange phone interview

[The Spartan]

The exact same reasoning could be applied to any developer (including really good ones) - yet you suggest that it's a silly question not in it's own right, but because they guy was a developer in test.

Having experienced a poor developer making a mess does nothing to change that.

The point is that a 'developer in test' is a developer - with focus in test automation. If questions about polymorphism is good for a developer, then it's good for a developer in test too.

If the guy is self-taught and doesn't know what polymorphism is, then he is almost certainly not going to be a 'good' developer. Good (which is obviously a relative term) developers read and study outside of work - and it's literally impossible to do that without absorbing terms such as polymorphism, etc.

Like I said, developer in test is a developer who focuses on test automation - not a tester who knows enough coding to get by. Otherwise the title dev in test wouldn't exist, as automation tester would suffice.

I think you'll find Developer-in-Test are more people who've learned to develop than the other way around, but what would I know about it having attended SDET and test gatherings around London. The developer wasn't poor he was actually quite talented but a lot of people don't realise that testing is an actual skill and not everyone can test, it's like the difference between checking and testing.

[MyUserName]

PC

FFS - two letters and I get one completely wrong!!!

Although, it is a better hit rate than normal tbh.

[TheFaQQer]

I thought PS said they didn't take him?

PC

[SpontaneousOrder]

really? This guy has virtually brought the company into the 21st century when it comes to automated testing, he knows more than a bit of automation that's for sure. The framework we've built here is very flexible and robust but then I suppose we only know a little bit about automation. Yet when they had a actual developer write a test suite that's when it ended up a tangled mess and that's what we had to sort out. It's not always about knowing the term for everything I think it's much more useful to be to apply it practically.

The exact same reasoning could be applied to any developer (including really good ones) - yet you suggest that it's a silly question not in it's own right, but because they guy was a developer in test.

Having experienced a poor developer making a mess does nothing to change that.

The point is that a 'developer in test' is a developer - with focus in test automation. If questions about polymorphism is good for a developer, then it's good for a developer in test too.

If the guy is self-taught and doesn't know what polymorphism is, then he is almost certainly not going to be a 'good' developer. Good (which is obviously a relative term) developers read and study outside of work - and it's literally impossible to do that without absorbing terms such as polymorphism, etc.

Like I said, developer in test is a developer who focuses on test automation - not a tester who knows enough coding to get by. Otherwise the title dev in test wouldn't exist, as automation tester would suffice.

[ElDuderino]

Had a telephone interview recently for a client based within a short commute of my home. 1st impressions: Interviewer not serious, or interviewer isn't a communicator.

Went on to say they are keeping system as OOB as possible, with code only where strictly required. Asked about previous projects. Got into explaining one, gave some details of its design (which was OOB as much as possible, code only where necessary), and was told by interviewer how wrong my design decisions were.

But then it sounded like client had a knack for developing without referring to requirments, hence the 'backlog of remedial work' they were currently undertaking...

Needless to say, I was relieved to find I didn't get the role.

[MyUserName]

Probably they'll get the one with the worst social skills, so complementing the rest of their dysfunctional team.

I thought PC said they didn't take him?

[BlasterBates]

Apparently, though they tested 5 people and took on the one who scored highest. No other interview, no chat, just the test over the phone.

Probably they'll get the one with the worst social skills, so complementing the rest of their dysfunctional team.

[psychocandy]

Well agent got back to me - fair play.

I scored 62% which was better than I though. Bit weird that I've got a score lol its a bit like school. Impressed though because 60% of the stuff wasnt on my CV and I've got little idea of.

Apparently, though they tested 5 people and took on the one who scored highest. No other interview, no chat, just the test over the phone.

Seems weird. Could end up with a right tithead. (like me!)

[TheFaQQer]

Worst one was probably "what is a smart pointer?"

A dog that can fetch me a beer and the remote control when I tell it to.

[MyUserName]

Some of the best technical questions I have had have had chuff all to do with specific technology. One was just "what is the most complicated project you have worked on?" and then he asked various questions based on that which probed the decisions I had made and why along with which alternatives I had considered.

Worst one was probably "what is a smart pointer?"

Where I am now asked me about how I got into software, what sort of applications I had written at work and at home and then gave me a spec and an hour to code for it. Then they came in and we discussed my solution. I quite liked it and it seemed to do the job (i.e. they hired me).

[The Spartan]

I don't see how you could be a dev in test without knowing what polymorphism is. That sounds more like a tester who is a bit technical and can do some automation - but that's often how the automated tests end up a a complete nightmare of a tangled mess.

Dev in test is a proper developer who focuses on test automation for that role.

really? This guy has virtually brought the company into the 21st century when it comes to automated testing, he knows more than a bit of automation that's for sure. The framework we've built here is very flexible and robust but then I suppose we only know a little bit about automation. Yet when they had a actual developer write a test suite that's when it ended up a tangled mess and that's what we had to sort out. It's not always about knowing the term for everything I think it's much more useful to be to apply it practically.

[SQLSwerver]

I have said it before - clients are just realizing how many crap contractors with 10+ years of experience and lacking even fundamental knowledge in the tech they work with. I have personally burned through at least a dozen who looked brilliant on paper but were absolute tulip when it came to actual skills. The clients are not paying top dollar for a contractor just because his Google Fu is strong. I agree that some interviewers are doing it wrong by asking a set list of questions like command syntax etc. Personally i never ask questions i don't know the answer to from the top of my head.

Long story short - get used to it, tech interviews for contractors are getting ever more popular, so get a grip, write down some of the questions that you failed to ask and make sure you know the answers for the next interview. Even if they are written on a piece of paper. Gone are the days that you can secure a contract based only on your CV as the competition heats up.

It's usually the sh1ttiest clients/managers who object to me using Google. The inverse is also true, ie the better paid the assignment, the better financed the client, the comfier they are with me not having every little scrap of syntax in my head. Seen it time and again.

Gone are the days I would touch those companies with YOUR dick.

[psychocandy]

IMO the client heard you had a Welsh accent so not wanting to be rude and slam the phone down he asked you some questions... and then slammed the phone down.

Q1 - whats the best way to 'bag' a sheep?

Reckon that was weird then?

[BlasterBates]

Technical tests are a complete waste of everyones time. The trouble is companies start doing technical tests and then find that their teams become dysfunctional or that people who do well in the tests are rubbish and then introduce even more tests. Eventually some manager then puts the hand on the shoulder of the interviewers to get them to back off otherwise they won't end up taking anyone on.

[7specialgems]

And the answer is ..... depends what the daily rate is.

That was my conclusion when I was in this situation as well

As it was, the rate was fantastic, the permanent talent was not, I put a shift in and invested early-on in big fat headphones to block out the utter superstars that interviewed me whilst I kept them happy and made sure that I didn't lose my market edge at the same time.