Reply to: How to get rate raise from agency..

[GillsMan]

ah yes the last word merchant .. go on then.

You could, of course, have argued my point. Or pointed out where I was wrong or right. Instead you wrote a barely coherent post which was in reply to my post pointing out that your assertion that not asking for rate rises is bad business.

I'm not trying to have the last word ffs, are you actually a child? I'm just trying to point out why your original assertion was so wrong.

[GillsMan]

Exactly this. Think as an individual which organisations get your own repeat business - it's the reliable ones who, whilst not the cheapest, are consistent and reasonable. Now turn the tables.

Rate rises for the sake of it? Penny wise, pound foolish.

TBF, that isn't quite what I was saying. Rate rises for the sake of it work for some contractors/businesses. As deluded as he is, SWB made a compelling point about why rate increases should be asked for. Where he went wrong is saying that anyone who doesn't do it is operating "bad business".

Not asking for rate rises paid dividends for me and my business personally.

My real point was that people can run their business well and either ask for rate increases or not ask for rate increases. Personally, I'd never ask for a rate increase, but I don't think those who do are running bad businesses. Yes, even SWB.

[GillsMan]

I could say something back to you and it would hurt, but I won't. I don't think this is a really about how big my apendage is.

My parting shot is just this, If you think its the right thing to do, then you should.

Amazing parting shot there. Saying pretty much exactly what I did (but less coherently). Thanks for bestowing some of your superior knowledge onto me.

[PerfectStorm]

Wrong. It can be good business. Some contractors make me laugh with their insular beliefs that their way is good business and therefore all other ways must be bad business.

Your argument as to why you ask for rate increases is well-thought out and compelling. And I've no doubt it works for you and others. It's good business. But equally, not asking for rate increases can be good business for reasons almost too obvious to point out: a price loyalty with your client helps bring a sense of loyalty for both parties. I've done ad hoc work for four of my clients after contracting with them (and I've only been in business a shade over four years), and one of the reasons they come back to me is that I don't 'nickel and dime' them. I'm fair with pricing, I'm fair with billing, I don't ask for rate increases the moment I know they're not in a position to say no and my clients respect that.

That has led to them being perfectly happy for me to operate how I want, with no requirements to go into the office - even at Barclays and BP, I was on site probably <10% of my time at each client. This enabled me to do multiple contracts at the same time, build a growing reputation, and so in four years I've gone from being a contractor to owning a business that is now made up of four full time permanent staff (including me), and is based out of on office and doing quite nicely at the moment.

So don't tell me that not asking for a rate increase is "bad business". Bad business is believing that there is only one approach to business.

Exactly this. Think as an individual which organisations get your own repeat business - it's the reliable ones who, whilst not the cheapest, are consistent and reasonable. Now turn the tables.

Rate rises for the sake of it? Penny wise, pound foolish.

[Darren_Test]

thanks Sue

[SueEllen]

Guys, needs bit of advice again....

There is a need to work for weekend or overtime again here. My contract clearly says 'standard rate for overtime work'. I previously informed client I am not getting any extra benefits for working weekend or overtime work and client admitted my agency's SOW shows double normal rate for my weekend or overtime work.!!

So this time client directly told agency what I said last time ie not getting any extra benefit for working weekend or overtime. Agency clarified to client ' that shouldn't be the case' .

Now I need to get confirmation from my agency that I will be paid extra bit for working weekend or overtime though my contract clearly says 'standard rate for overtime work'.

Knowing that I shouldn't have discussed this with client or client shouldn't have revealed SOW rate to me...How can I ask agency for clarification now..? Without breaking any of the confidentiality agreements I signed..??

bit tricky..?

You stated you aren't getting benefit from working more days. You haven't broken the confidentiality clause because you didn't say how exactly much you were actually getting paid. The client just told you what the agency was getting for your work. Stick along those lines and you should be OK.

BTW in the future get such clauses removed. I never allow confidentiality clauses in my contracts about how much I'm invoicing. Agents aren't happy with it as they use the excuse that I will tell permanent staff, but I point out if the client contracts person wants to know I'm happy to tell them or do they have a trust problem with their client.....

[Darren_Test]

Guys, needs bit of advice again....

Guys, needs bit of advice again....

There is a need to work for weekend or overtime again here. My contract clearly says 'standard rate for overtime work'. I previously informed client I am not getting any extra benefits for working weekend or overtime work and client admitted my agency's SOW shows double normal rate for my weekend or overtime work.!!

So this time client directly told agency what I said last time ie not getting any extra benefit for working weekend or overtime. Agency clarified to client ' that shouldn't be the case' .

Now I need to get confirmation from my agency that I will be paid extra bit for working weekend or overtime though my contract clearly says 'standard rate for overtime work'.

Knowing that I shouldn't have discussed this with client or client shouldn't have revealed SOW rate to me...How can I ask agency for clarification now..? Without breaking any of the confidentiality agreements I signed..??

bit tricky..?

[Unix]

If I'm getting what I want, I don't give a toss what the agent is getting. That's a separate contract that they've negotiated with ClientCo.

I think the whole process should be transparent, so you know what the agent is getting, rather than the cloak and dagger approach.

[LondonManc]

If I'm getting what I want, I don't give a toss what the agent is getting. That's a separate contract that they've negotiated with ClientCo.

[psychocandy]

If your agent isn't on a fixed margin and you are really willing to walk you could push his margin after the first renewal or two. He would have taken a rate to make his money in the first duration. If multiple renewals occur he is quids in so it wouldn't be too cheeky to ask him to drop his percentage for the future renewals as it's easy money for him. What you have to remember though is agents deal with contractors asking for more day in day out. Unless you are really willing to stick it to him or walk you would be wasting your time, he will play hardball with you and he will only cave if he genuinely thinks his income could evaporate. A sniff that you are bluffing and you don't have a hope.

This really only works if he is on a pretty good margin so you are only talking a couple of percent here.

Second that. Pimps are a nightmare and know exactly how to negotiate so they dont have to give up anything.

Like I said, I was pleased the other day when I got a few more quid out of the deal, then later found out they were getting over 30% anyway.

[psychocandy]

Put it this way, if you had negotiated a low price with a builder for an extension how would you react if in the last month of the job he said I want 10% more?

Obviously the situations aren't exactly the same but the principle is.

I once worked at a client for over 3 years. They increased my rate substantially after 12 months. I stayed on that rate for the rest of the contract.

IMHO, contractors shouldn't ask for an increase. Most B2B relationships look to cut costs later in a contract not, increase them. It never ceases to amaze me the number of contractors who say they are a business then act like a permie and expect an annual increase but, hey ho!

Ask for a good rate at the beginning and stick to it.

Yeh but its not the last month of a job. Its an extra job - the extra month. Its like asking a builder to do a job then asking him to build another wall for a month.

Hes quite entitled to charge a higher rate. You can bet a builder wouldnt care about how it looks.

[psychocandy]

Rate increases = nightmare.

IMHO, most clients are generally not happy to have to pay for a contractor in the first place so when they find out they want more it doesnt go down well.

Saying that, theres always a chance the pimp is taking a huge margin.

Current gig just got a raise.Agent gave me all the, client cant afford to pay more blah blah blah, the wont be happy if they've got to re-do budgets etc, and there's no slack in the margin at all the agency is down to the bare bones blah blah blah.

But I stuck to my guns this time and agency came back with an increase which I was pleased with. Until I found out accidentally a week later just how much the of a margin the agency had been taking - over 30%! (its still about 17% now!). Was not pleased.

Obviously, agent had given up a big of their huge margin to keep me quiet confident in the knowledge they were still coining it well.

Some have mentioned speaking to client directly. Nah I dont think so. Most clients dont want to get involved in arguments like this.

[LondonManc]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I don't understand why you feel you have some sort of weird price loyalty to your client, but frankly its not good business. Or is it just an intrinsic belief that your work has no real value? The longer I'm with a client the more valuable I am to them as I now have a valuable skill set combined with good knowledge of their business. In addition I like to think that I've also added good value to the business. With these three things combined I feel completely justified in asking for a rate rise.

If I negotiated a six month contract with a builder and at the end of it, then asked him to do something else and his labour rate went up by 10% I would either accept it or go out and quote with someone else. The fact that I felt his work was good enough that I would want him back would probably mean that I wouldn't care about the 10% increase.

Spot on. I think this is the positive of being a contractor over a consultancy - they have better termination clauses and can get battered for rate whereas we make ourselves more useful to the client (rather than selling more days we earn them) and as such our worth increases.

[GillsMan]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I don't understand why you feel you have some sort of weird price loyalty to your client, but frankly its not good business. Or is it just an intrinsic belief that your work has no real value? The longer I'm with a client the more valuable I am to them as I now have a valuable skill set combined with good knowledge of their business. In addition I like to think that I've also added good value to the business. With these three things combined I feel completely justified in asking for a rate rise.

Wrong. It can be good business. Some contractors make me laugh with their insular beliefs that their way is good business and therefore all other ways must be bad business.

Your argument as to why you ask for rate increases is well-thought out and compelling. And I've no doubt it works for you and others. It's good business. But equally, not asking for rate increases can be good business for reasons almost too obvious to point out: a price loyalty with your client helps bring a sense of loyalty for both parties. I've done ad hoc work for four of my clients after contracting with them (and I've only been in business a shade over four years), and one of the reasons they come back to me is that I don't 'nickel and dime' them. I'm fair with pricing, I'm fair with billing, I don't ask for rate increases the moment I know they're not in a position to say no and my clients respect that.

That has led to them being perfectly happy for me to operate how I want, with no requirements to go into the office - even at Barclays and BP, I was on site probably <10% of my time at each client. This enabled me to do multiple contracts at the same time, build a growing reputation, and so in four years I've gone from being a contractor to owning a business that is now made up of four full time permanent staff (including me), and is based out of on office and doing quite nicely at the moment.

So don't tell me that not asking for a rate increase is "bad business". Bad business is believing that there is only one approach to business.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Put it this way, if you had negotiated a low price with a builder for an extension how would you react if in the last month of the job he said I want 10% more?

Obviously the situations aren't exactly the same but the principle is.

I once worked at a client for over 3 years. They increased my rate substantially after 12 months. I stayed on that rate for the rest of the contract.

IMHO, contractors shouldn't ask for an increase. Most B2B relationships look to cut costs later in a contract not, increase them. It never ceases to amaze me the number of contractors who say they are a business then act like a permie and expect an annual increase but, hey ho!

Ask for a good rate at the beginning and stick to it.

I don't know about you, but I face price hikes every year - mid contract - from my mobile phone contracts, etc. Sounds business like to me - otherwise you'd be being paid fixed price for fixed deliverables.