Reply to: Termination Question

[TheFaQQer]

Supplementary question, do you check a client on Glassdoor before you sign a contract? I've started doing it.

Do you think that how a company treats it's employees bears any resemblance on how it treats it's suppliers?

Or are you a disguised permie?

[psychocandy]

Name please. We all should know about Bad Clients ...

Supplementary question, do you check a client on Glassdoor before you sign a contract? I've started doing it.

Much as I'd like to I'd rather not name names.....

[sal]

Not if you negotiate your contract properly and make sure the binning clauses aren't vague and arbitrary.

If you negotiate your contract properly you will have MOO clause in it. Meaning that if you have ironclad clauses for notice, the client can just stop giving you work, leaving you without signed timesheet and no ground for invoice/payment which is effectively the same as termination without notice.

[psychocandy]

Know of a well known client that doesnt bother with notice periods. If, for whatever reason they need contractor gone, they march them off site and then say reason is 'you surfed the internet in the working day'. (Yep, just once is enough of an excuse for them).

Bit of a piss take that mind that if you ask me.

[SueEllen]

that's why I said "most typical contracts" - I imagine that applies to most, and to be honest I'm happy with that.

"Typical" is if you are foolish and don't read our contract properly before you sign it.

Lots of people don't.

[jmo21]

Not if you negotiate your contract properly and make sure the binning clauses aren't vague and arbitrary.

that's why I said "most typical contracts" - I imagine that applies to most, and to be honest I'm happy with that.

If they don't want me, for whatever reason, I am happy to go, no messing about with notice

[northernladuk]

You would presume wrong in this case.

I just wasn't sure if they could counter with their notice.

Ah in that case they could just walk him off site and not give him notice if they want. They don't even have to give notice. Just withdraw work from him so he can't submit a signed timesheet. Options for recourse in this situation are being discussed heavily in at least 2 current threads but still, the client can and sometimes do this.

[anthony]

I presume this is notice from a perm job. This is a board for contractors, not employment advice so just be mindful when taking the advice.

Either way I think TF has given the right answer

You would presume wrong in this case.

I just wasn't sure if they could counter with their notice.

[SueEllen]

In most typical contracts we work under, they can bin you for no reason whatsoever.

Not if you negotiate your contract properly and make sure the binning clauses aren't vague and arbitrary.

[northernladuk]

Hi guys,

A work colleague ( yes actually this time it really is ) handed in their notice last week. Seemingly today the client has given his "his notice" terminating his contract Friday.

The question is , can they give him notice if he already has given his notice?

I presume this is notice from a perm job. This is a board for contractors, not employment advice so just be mindful when taking the advice.

Either way I think TF has given the right answer

[LondonManc]

Yes. The problem is that the balance of power lies with the other party who don't generally want something like this in the contract. It becomes even worse when you are working via an agency because they will want something in the higher contract between them and the client to cover themselves.

I think that's the key difference between us and consultancies - a layer of middleware. I can't see it changing but it's how you accept the market operates and there's the perm option for those that don't like it.

Good luck - but don't be surprised when the only thing is a take it or leave it offer.

Thanks but this was two months ago. Not bothered about it as the 10% less rate was less than I can get outside IB. Attracted by the prospect of a 6 month initial contract, 2-year project plan but knew the rate cut was a possibility and didn't want the gig if I had to do it at the lower rate.

[TheFaQQer]

So it's up to contractors to get something similar in our contract?

Yes. The problem is that the balance of power lies with the other party who don't generally want something like this in the contract. It becomes even worse when you are working via an agency because they will want something in the higher contract between them and the client to cover themselves.

I had a similar discussion with an agent asking me to work at an IB known for its rate cuts. Having suffered one there in the first couple of months of my previous engagement with them, I asked about a rate reduction clause. I haven't heard back since.

Good luck - but don't be surprised when the only thing is a take it or leave it offer.

[LondonManc]

So it's up to contractors to get something similar in our contract?

I had a similar discussion with an agent asking me to work at an IB known for its rate cuts. Having suffered one there in the first couple of months of my previous engagement with them, I asked about a rate reduction clause. I haven't heard back since.

[TheFaQQer]

Can they do that with the larger consultancies, don't just mean Accenture et al, but the local 50-ish employee set ups?

Yes, but they generally have a clause in the contract which allows them to charge for early termination.

More years back than I care to remember, I was working for a large consultancy on a project for a big bank. One week, the board decided to have a look at how well the project was doing, since the burn rate was somewhere in the region of £1million a month (probably higher, but it was at least that) and was going nowhere.

Friday morning - client terminated the contract. Consultancy charged 28 days for every person that they had on-site that day (regardless of whether they were going to be there for that length of time) - 56 of us. Client paid up, consultancy manager got his bonus because they got the money, and I missed my utilisation target for the quarter by 2 days because even though the company got paid, I couldn't put it down as billable time

If it's in the contract, then you enforce it; if it isn't then you are left to moaning about it on internet fora.

[LondonManc]

In fact it's usually simpler than that.

In most typical contracts we work under, they can bin you for no reason whatsoever.

Can they do that with the larger consultancies, don't just mean Accenture et al, but the local 50-ish employee set ups? Or are we accepted as easy targets?