Reply to: 2.5 week immovable holiday 6 weeks into possible new contract - how to handle?

[Glencky]

CloudWalker, it depends what area you work in I guess but in my previous company we used to 'encourage' all contractors to take time off between Christmas and New Year anyway. I assume perhaps it's a particularly long break you're looking for but thinking of all the (many) contractors I employed in roles, there are very few instances where I think I'd have been annoyed by say a 3 week break over Christmas. As long as I knew about it well in advance. Even longer might be OK. I think you need to go for it and see how it works out.

It might help if you go for a company with a large contractor population known for managing them more similarly to permies. Yes, I get the IR35 implications but I'm talking in very general terms, not specific to any one aspect. In line with all the comments on this thread, there are many reasons why the holiday could cause an issue but there are also many areas where it would not. In financial services it's pretty unusual to have a large implementation right at year end for example (not unheard of, one of my biggest projects had legal deadline of 31 December but it's unusual). So in some environments it may be OK.

[CloudWalker]

I'm in this situation too.

My contract ends this month and I'm going to Australia at Christmas.
So need a Contract to plug a 4 month gap between now and then.

[Glencky]

Bob Shawadiwadi?

Hahahahaha! Something like that!

[Old Greg]

Thanks, folks!

I've been doing a fair bit of reading on the forum recently so I'd noticed 'the bananas' thing (thanks!)

But can somebody tell me the origin?! Or is it one of those internet forum things where nobody knows why, they just do it?!

(or maybe it's obvious and I'm being thick!)

By the way the weirdest thing about the interview... there had been a lot of confusion from the agent about names of people interviewing me before I arrived (been on the other side of this, scrabbling around trying to find somebody with time to be a second interviewer - factor in the useless agent and it didn't phase me). But when I got there, the receptionist said, ah yes I was told you would ask for those people but it's actually 'New Name' who is interviewing you. I'll just let him know you're here. 'New Name' was the same name as the CEO of the company I'm currently contracted to (my boss's boss, I'm working with him quite closely) on the other side of the world..! (first contract post-permiedom was working for a former manager who is now in Asia so I've been out of the country most of the year). it's not a common name either ! very strange coincidence.

Bob Shawadiwadi?

[Glencky]

Thanks, folks!

I've been doing a fair bit of reading on the forum recently so I'd noticed 'the bananas' thing (thanks!)

But can somebody tell me the origin?! Or is it one of those internet forum things where nobody knows why, they just do it?!

(or maybe it's obvious and I'm being thick!)

By the way the weirdest thing about the interview... there had been a lot of confusion from the agent about names of people interviewing me before I arrived (been on the other side of this, scrabbling around trying to find somebody with time to be a second interviewer - factor in the useless agent and it didn't phase me). But when I got there, the receptionist said, ah yes I was told you would ask for those people but it's actually 'New Name' who is interviewing you. I'll just let him know you're here. 'New Name' was the same name as the CEO of the company I'm currently contracted to (my boss's boss, I'm working with him quite closely) on the other side of the world..! (first contract post-permiedom was working for a former manager who is now in Asia so I've been out of the country most of the year). it's not a common name either ! very strange coincidence.

[kal]

Banana time!

[northernladuk]

Way to go!

[Old Greg]

In case anyone is interested/ still watching, an update for everyone.

I had the interview yesterday, which went well. Towards the end of the interview the interviewer said, "anything else I should know? You've not got a round the world cruise booked this side of Christmas or anything?!" Obviously my heart sank! but I just said, "actually I do have a family holiday booked, one I can't move I'm afraid as it's for a family wedding. It's from date X to date y, about 2.5 weeks. Sorry about that, I wouldn't have chosen it like that but as I say, it's immovable."

(by this point I already knew my assumptions about the project from the little I knew before interview were correct and that the chance of any critical deadline happening during that time was minimal to non-existent, which made me feel slightly better).

His response? "that's fine, everyone has holiday and those dates work out OK."

And today I got offered the contract.

I was glad they asked in interview as saved me the angst of whether to bring it up at the end or not! and I'd rather be open and honest.

For what it's worth in case anyone is considering this issue in the future and comes upon this thread, as well as the good points already raised about timing for the project, I think the kind of company might make a difference too. My background as a permie was in a large financial services company with a large business change department. I recruited contracts like me and this holiday, 6.5 weeks out, would not have stopped me offering unless it was the absolute most critical time for the project - if I liked the person. I happened to have some friends who are former work colleagues for dinner on Sunday and they agreed, one had had somebody start for a week, then go off for a week only recently. You just have to think slightly longer term. The company I was interviewing with this time was a similar type and scale of company so I hoped they might take a similar line.

In my case I suspect they're thinking they're glad I've had time off earlier as less likely to have a block of time off later.

So it's all subject to contract negotiations of course but the holiday itself didn't stop them offering. Thanks for your input folks!

Well done and thanks for the update. It's generally worth doing the thing that you know in your heart you should.

[Glencky]

In case anyone is interested/ still watching, an update for everyone.

I had the interview yesterday, which went well. Towards the end of the interview the interviewer said, "anything else I should know? You've not got a round the world cruise booked this side of Christmas or anything?!" Obviously my heart sank! but I just said, "actually I do have a family holiday booked, one I can't move I'm afraid as it's for a family wedding. It's from date X to date y, about 2.5 weeks. Sorry about that, I wouldn't have chosen it like that but as I say, it's immovable."

(by this point I already knew my assumptions about the project from the little I knew before interview were correct and that the chance of any critical deadline happening during that time was minimal to non-existent, which made me feel slightly better).

His response? "that's fine, everyone has holiday and those dates work out OK."

And today I got offered the contract.

I was glad they asked in interview as saved me the angst of whether to bring it up at the end or not! and I'd rather be open and honest.

For what it's worth in case anyone is considering this issue in the future and comes upon this thread, as well as the good points already raised about timing for the project, I think the kind of company might make a difference too. My background as a permie was in a large financial services company with a large business change department. I recruited contracts like me and this holiday, 6.5 weeks out, would not have stopped me offering unless it was the absolute most critical time for the project - if I liked the person. I happened to have some friends who are former work colleagues for dinner on Sunday and they agreed, one had had somebody start for a week, then go off for a week only recently. You just have to think slightly longer term. The company I was interviewing with this time was a similar type and scale of company so I hoped they might take a similar line.

In my case I suspect they're thinking they're glad I've had time off earlier as less likely to have a block of time off later.

So it's all subject to contract negotiations of course but the holiday itself didn't stop them offering. Thanks for your input folks!

[Glencky]

Go live dates move all the time especially in the bigger projects. This sometimes lead to situations you can't go on holiday at all for half a year or longer

Yes, completely get that. This was not a situation I chose, just the way it's worked out. It's not as if that particular aspect is any different as a permie...

But in this case, I'm as confident as I can be, given what I know about the project, that the time period won't cover any implementations, but that's not to say there won't be other critical dates.

Bottom line: dealing with absence from the office for permies and contractors alike is part of project management. Good organisations understand this happens and manage around it.

But of course in this situation, an absence as long as 2.5 weeks and 7 weeks in is obviously a long way from ideal. So we'll see what happens!

[Eirikur]

The issue really depends on what the client has lined up for you. I know contractors that have 3 weeks off but it has not clashed with any release dates or anything particularly important on the project. If it's around some form of go live date it's going to be a huge issue to the client and pretty unpalatable

I would do as JMO21 says. Get the offer then make them aware. I think accepting and turning up on site and then dropping this bombshell is as poor way to deal with it.

Go live dates move all the time especially in the bigger projects. This sometimes lead to situations you can't go on holiday at all for half a year or longer

[Glencky]

Thanks, Contreras.

To be fair, I'm not sure I can be expected to summarise the view of those who didn't care to reply..!

Your points noted, and yes you're right: it really will depend what happens at interview. As I said from the start, I'm all for full disclosure as a general principle, so the closer I am to that the happier I will be. Thanks for your reply.

[Contreras]

So I think the consensus is probably:

* fingers crossed no critical deadlines during that time
* hope they don't specifically ask me this at interview (because if they do I would of course answer honestly)
* hope they offer
* divulge to agent when they do
* and by then, hope they want me to the extent they are prepared to accept the constraint

That being the consensus of the few that cared to reply, and even then I'm not sure the above accurately summarises the advice given.

Fwiw, I would be uncomfortable concealing it from the client at interview. You need to play it by ear and think on your feet at interview time and decide which is the least damage approach. I agree definitely do not discuss this with the agent or there is a good chance they may try to sell someone in your place. Let the agent hear it from the client (disagree with your point 4. above). If the subject isn't approached at interview be sure to get the client's details so you have a route to approach it later. Also what SueEllen said.

[Glencky]

Thanks, folks, for your further replies. PerfectStorm - yes, understand it's no about 'requesting holiday' (and the IR35 implications if it were) but rather making it clear the terms on which I'm available to provide services.

Also yes, fully appreciate it depends what's lined up. I have reason to believe any go-lives would be into 2015 and hence out of the way. Doesn't mean there aren't already known and committed deadlines during the relevant time period that could still cause a problem, of course, and over and above that it's never no-impact to have somebody out for that long.

That said, I think this is probably very dependent upon environment. I am applying for a role in a very similar environment to that in which I was a permie for over 10 years. I used to employ a lot of contractors like me and it was pretty common for them to take a 2 week, or slightly more, absence to go on holiday.

So I think the consensus is probably:

* fingers crossed no critical deadlines during that time
* hope they don't specifically ask me this at interview (because if they do I would of course answer honestly)
* hope they offer
* divulge to agent when they do
* and by then, hope they want me to the extent they are prepared to accept the constraint

Fingers crossed!

PerfectStorm - I can see the merit in your idea to wait until onsite and book. It's a judgement, isn't it? If it was a little later into the contract I might well do that, say 3 months plus. But I'm a bit uncomfortable doing it with a holiday inside 7 weeks after I start. Feels like failing to declare something relevant.

Of course it might be interesting to see what notice period they would offer. If notice on my side is short then arguably they shouldn't care because I could walk away at that short notice at any point anyway. However I would guess it will be at least a month. And still I get back to, I want to act in good faith, so best to divulge at point of offer.

And again, I might have no problem at all as they may not think I'm suitable anyway!! *cue 2 months on the bench and a panicked return from holiday*

[SueEllen]

Tell the client NOT the agent.

If the client is happy with it then you are OK.

The agent may not be happy with it as they lose income from you being off, but if the client is happy with you then they will leave it.