Reply to: Caveated Boomed - form of words?

[pjclarke]

X + (50% of A) or 50% of (X+A)?

The former. My request would have been +12.5%, They've offered +6.25%.

[Old Greg]

Called It. The penultimate day of the contract she offers 50% of what I asked for and I said yes. A few hundred extra a month headed into the pension pot ...

X + (50% of A) or 50% of (X+A)?

[mudskipper]

Called It. The penultimate day of the contract she offers 50% of what I asked for and I said yes. A few hundred extra a month headed into the pension pot ...

Nice one

[pjclarke]

It will go like this: she'll come back with 'Sorry, no more on the table: X is our best offer', I'll counter with 'OK, I was hoping for X+A so I'm outta here', she'll come back with 'OK we can stretch to (X+B) where B<A' and I'll accept or she'll say 'X' - and I'll accept.

All a bit ritualistic, but that's how the game goes.

Called It. The penultimate day of the contract she offers 50% of what I asked for and I said yes. A few hundred extra a month headed into the pension pot ...

[pjclarke]

I always try to be as polite as possible, hardball tactics rarely work especially when, as NLUK says, there is not really any lead in your pencil.

Something along the lines of "I took this contract because I was interested in working with you despite the rate which, realistically, was fairly low. I would be very interested in a renewal, espcially now I have good experience of <whatever_the_****_you_do>, but it would have to be at a more realistic day rate"

I would have this discussion with the client but not discuss actual figures. Get an agrement in principle and then discuss numbers with the intermediary.

Well, thanks for all the advice, a spectrum of views there. Bacchus is closest to what I've actually done, but at the agency's request I have given them an actual figure, 12.5% higher than my current rate, which would bring it up to mid-market. Management here can't be bothered and simply refer me to the agency (tho' its not really an agency, more a consultancy with 99% contract staff), contracts are pretty much automatically rolled over as long as there is work and you haven't done anything grossly incompetent.

Now I wait.

[I just need to test it]

I assume you were direct? This wouldn't work with an agent. He doesn't have a clue or give a toss.

The sequence of events were:

1. I was overloaded with work. Asked agent for more money.
2. Agent said "Give me justification.
3. I wrote said justification.
4. This was passed to client who okayed it.

This was a role 4 miles from home (believe me, that doesn't happen too often where I live) so it was a very pleasant surprise to get the rate rise.

But yeah, agent may not have given a toss but they did the needful. God bless you, Square One. ;-)

[mudskipper]

How about:

"You committed to reviewing my rate after x months. Before we discuss the detail of the extension, please can you confirm what the offer is?"

[Wanderer]

what form of words would you use in requesting an uplift in the day-rate to maximise the chances of getting one

I would love to take the extension and I really enjoy working with you guys but I've had a better offer and I will be taking that.

If they call your bluff then you have to try and back pedal and hope it doesn't screw your chances of an extension.

Also, I try not to accept contracts on discounted rates with the promise of a review at renewal time because it just doesn't happen these days...

Find out what markup the agent is taking and see if there is room to move on that too

[Bacchus]

I always try to be as polite as possible, hardball tactics rarely work especially when, as NLUK says, there is not really any lead in your pencil.

Something along the lines of "I took this contract because I was interested in working with you despite the rate which, realistically, was fairly low. I would be very interested in a renewal, espcially now I have good experience of <whatever_the_****_you_do>, but it would have to be at a more realistic day rate"

I would have this discussion with the client but not discuss actual figures. Get an agrement in principle and then discuss numbers with the intermediary.

[v8gaz]

Cant you link to some graphs that will conclusively demonstrate that you're worth more?

[northernladuk]

It will go like this: she'll come back with 'Sorry, no more on the table: X is our best offer', I'll counter with 'OK, I was hoping for X+A so I'm outta here', she'll come back with 'OK we can stretch to (X+B) where B<A' and I'll accept or she'll say 'X' - and I'll accept. .

That's not ritualistic, that's a joke. If she gives you more in that situation then you have been had over a barrel in the past and if she doesn't believe you will walk then you won't get anything more. It's not ritualistic, it's a negotiation. You might buy carpets in Turkey like that but you don't play hardball to force a client to up your rate like that.

[SueEllen]

I'm just not cynical enough for this game.

Deal with more agencies and you will be cynical.....

Or for a bit of practise talk to some estate agents.

[pjclarke]

And?

If you have a better paying contract (or two) to go to then why worry?

I am not in the slightest bit worried, I like it here and will stay at the current rate; me staying is in both our best interests; I was just hoping with some help from more seasoned negotiators than I about the best tactics for securing an uplift, which who knows may even be in the clients' best interest. 'Play hardball' seems to be about it.

I'm just not cynical enough for this game.

[SueEllen]

Its technically an agency, but with a relationship that makes it effectively part of ClientCo's business, like an outsourced IT Dept. My contact (its a 'she' BTW) will have received feedback from people on the ground requesting my renewal.

It will go like this: she'll come back with 'Sorry, no more on the table: X is our best offer', I'll counter with 'OK, I was hoping for X+A so I'm outta here', she'll come back with 'OK we can stretch to (X+B) where B<A' and I'll accept or she'll say 'X' - and I'll accept.

All a bit ritualistic, but that's how the game goes.

And?

If you have a better paying contract (or two) to go to then why worry?

[Sausage Surprise]

Its technically an agency, but with a relationship that makes it effectively part of ClientCo's business, like an outsourced IT Dept. My contact (its a 'she' BTW) will have received feedback from people on the ground requesting my renewal.

It will go like this: she'll come back with 'Sorry, no more on the table: X is our best offer', I'll counter with 'OK, I was hoping for X+A so I'm outta here', she'll come back with "shut the door on your way out"....

All a bit ritualistic, but that's how the game goes.

I think the above is more realistic...