Reply to: Economics

[meridian]

You know - I think this may have something to do with the fact that they are 'travelling the world' and need jobs to fund that...

If you only work in the UK you are probably not doing as much traveling as you would like - obviously if you get to a farm in Australia then you are travelling.

So I think the people who do go work on farms in Australia are not the sort of the people who would actually see fruit picking in the UK as a career they would pursue.

Like a stopped clock, you’ve inadvertently hit the right answer for a change. In Australia, for example, seasonal work such as fruit picking requires a high demand of numbers of people for a short defined period. For Brit backpackers Oz offers an additional year on the working holiday visa if they do three months farm work.

With this in mind, what do you think the solution should be for seasonal workers required for U.K. growers?

And what do you think of the argument that getting rid of cheap EU labour will mean that U.K. people will take up that slack?

[darmstadt]

Don't bring logic and reason into this. Remember your audience.

There was no reason or logic in oPM's post, a 'career' in fruit picking!

[Zigenare]

You know - I think this may have something to do with the fact that they are 'travelling the world' and need jobs to fund that...

If you only work in the UK you are probably not doing as much traveling as you would like - obviously if you get to a farm in Australia then you are travelling.

So I think the people who do go work on farms in Australia are not the sort of the people who would actually see fruit picking in the UK as a career they would pursue.

Don't bring logic and reason into this. Remember your audience.

[original PM]

I picked bananas on a kibbutz, grapes in France when I was young as it was an adventure.
I would not have picked fruit in the UK.
Maybe a lot of EU workers come to the UK to pick fruit and other low paid jobs to practice their English.
The English are quite prepared to go to australia and work on farms but wouldn't dream of picking fruit in the UK.





Sent from my SM-A320FL using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

You know - I think this may have something to do with the fact that they are 'travelling the world' and need jobs to fund that...

If you only work in the UK you are probably not doing as much traveling as you would like - obviously if you get to a farm in Australia then you are travelling.

So I think the people who do go work on farms in Australia are not the sort of the people who would actually see fruit picking in the UK as a career they would pursue.

[scooterscot]

2

2019..

UK wage growth picks up to 11-year high - BBC News

Agent on the phone last week offering a job in Bristol that was just a fraction above that I charged in 2008. Of course it was a 11 year high! All 3% extra

Ludicrous.

[scooterscot]

No-deal Brexit would push UK debt to 50-year high, says think tank - BBC News

Daily wail alternative headline:

Given the earth is 4.543 billion years old, 50 year debt pile is a rounding error.

[Brussels Slumdog]

I picked bananas on a kibbutz, grapes in France when I was young as it was an adventure.
I would not have picked fruit in the UK.
Maybe a lot of EU workers come to the UK to pick fruit and other low paid jobs to practice their English.
The English are quite prepared to go to australia and work on farms but wouldn't dream of picking fruit in the UK.





Sent from my SM-A320FL using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[minestrone]

It's still better than France.

The french are detestable.

I'm glad they made a word for themselves.

[minestrone]

The BBC seems to spend a lot of time commenting on Paul Johnson's fantastic insights.

Never seems to question him on his bulltulip.

[Zigenare]

No-deal Brexit would push UK debt to 50-year high, says think tank - BBC News

The think tank said borrowing was likely to rise to £100bn and total debt would soar to 90% of national income.

It's still better than France.

Grand scheme of things when you're already $8 trillion in debt £100bn is small change.

[minestrone]

2016...

"The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor," said IFS director Paul Johnson.

IFS warns of biggest squeeze on pay for 70 years over Brexit | Business | The Guardian
UK faces two decades of no earnings growth and more austerity, says IFS | Business | The Guardian

2017...

UK pay growth rises to 3.1%, the highest in almost a decade | Business | The Guardian

2018...

UK wage growth fastest for nearly 10 years - BBC News

2019..

UK wage growth picks up to 11-year high - BBC News

[minestrone]

No-deal Brexit would push UK debt to 50-year high, says think tank - BBC News

[DealorNoDeal]

This was discussed on Farming Today a while back. Farmers were anticipating the supply of pickers from the EU to dry up fairly soon anyway due to improvements back in their home countries. Brexit, and especially the fall in the £, has just accelerated this. They are counting on the Govt allowing them to hire temporary workers from other countries. Spanish farmers use (exploit) African workers.

Exploited to put food on our plates: ‘we live like animals’ – Channel 4 News

[Gibbon]

What I’m trying to get at in this thread, though, is that change will need to be systemic to avoid short-term issues - employees, growers, tech providers, supermarkets, etc will all face short term challenges if the government shuts off the base supply of workers with no transition to allow people to adjust.

I agree, but I doubt it will bear fruition

[meridian]

'skilled raspberry pickers' ? I used to do it in the school holidays, no skill required.

Wage increase is only one factor, at the moment its cheap enough not to invest, even though investing would in the long term make more sense.

Exactly my point. It’s minimum wage work and is unlikely to ever be more than that. Brits won’t do it. And while it’s minimum wage work with enough foreign temporary workers to do it, there’s little incentive to change.

Remove the workers, and either wages need to go up to attract pickers, or product goes to waste on the ground. Either way, as I said, an increase in prices and growers going out of business.

The business' should see this coming and the ones that do will survive, yes the others will go under or adapt, that's how progress works, not everyone doing the same thing they've always done. Progress requires some chaos and churn.

I don’t disagree, they will be slow to react and spend more energy in trying to retain the status quo rather than investigating and implementing alternative solutions.

What I’m trying to get at in this thread, though, is that change will need to be systemic to avoid short-term issues - employees, growers, tech providers, supermarkets, etc will all face short term challenges if the government shuts off the base supply of workers with no transition to allow people to adjust.