• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Reply to: Giving up control

Collapse

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  • You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
  • You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  • If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Previously on "Giving up control"

Collapse

  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    Greece couldn't afford to pay a cent, so instead of defaulting, they deferred. That was a political decision. It was a default by any other name...
    Yes but it wasn't a default so they can access the markets for debt. When a country defaults it can't.

    If you agree to defer with your creditors it isn't a default. That applies to any company and bond holders, this isn't specific to Greece.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    UK WWII debt was around 230% of GDP



    Greece national debt is 180%, and will drop over the years.
    Fine, you cling to that, but it won't drop. It will increase. The debt interest over the next 19 years will make sure it does.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by CryingSheep View Post
    Last time Greece default was in 1932... not sure if that was what you meant by 'defaulting again'...
    Greece couldn't afford to pay a cent, so instead of defaulting, they deferred. That was a political decision. It was a default by any other name...

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    We paid the WWII debt off within the last 10 years (meaning it took us nearly 70 years), and it wasn't anything like the % debt to GDP that Greece has now. In 2032 they'll have to start defaulting again (simply due to the size of the debt) and what happens then? The Greeks would have to discover oil, gold or diamonds in mahoosive quantities to make their debt "not much of a burden". Interest is still accruing, and most of it is being rolled into the debt.
    Greece may not be the one which brings down the Eurozone (I think that will ultimately be Italy) but it will cause so much pain that the Germans finally pull the plug.
    UK WWII debt was around 230% of GDP



    Greece national debt is 180%, and will drop over the years.

    Leave a comment:


  • CryingSheep
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    We paid the WWII debt off within the last 10 years (meaning it took us nearly 70 years), and it wasn't anything like the % debt to GDP that Greece has now. In 2032 they'll have to start defaulting again (simply due to the size of the debt) and what happens then? The Greeks would have to discover oil, gold or diamonds in mahoosive quantities to make their debt "not much of a burden". Interest is still accruing, and most of it is being rolled into the debt.
    Greece may not be the one which brings down the Eurozone (I think that will ultimately be Italy) but it will cause so much pain that the Germans finally pull the plug.
    Last time Greece default was in 1932... not sure if that was what you meant by 'defaulting again'...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    By the time 2032 comes along the debt will not be much of a burden, the Greek economy is growing. I don't hear anyone complaining about the huge burden of WWII debt.
    We paid the WWII debt off within the last 10 years (meaning it took us nearly 70 years), and it wasn't anything like the % debt to GDP that Greece has now. In 2032 they'll have to start defaulting again (simply due to the size of the debt) and what happens then? The Greeks would have to discover oil, gold or diamonds in mahoosive quantities to make their debt "not much of a burden". Interest is still accruing, and most of it is being rolled into the debt.
    Greece may not be the one which brings down the Eurozone (I think that will ultimately be Italy) but it will cause so much pain that the Germans finally pull the plug.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    Only because the bulk of their EU debt is deferred to 2032. At some point you have to admit they haven't got over it, and they won't be over it for the best part of never...
    By the time 2032 comes along the debt will not be much of a burden, the Greek economy is growing. I don't hear anyone complaining about the huge burden of WWII debt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Greece runs a budget surplus. In other words their outgoings which includes interest payments on their debt is lower than their income, and they're growing, their unemployment is coming down sharply.

    At some point you have to admit whatever happened in 2008 they've got over it.
    Only because the bulk of their EU debt is deferred to 2032. At some point you have to admit they haven't got over it, and they won't be over it for the best part of never...

    Leave a comment:


  • CryingSheep
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Greece runs a budget surplus. In other words their outgoings which includes interest payments on their debt is lower than their income, and they're growing, their unemployment is coming down sharply.

    At some point you have to admit whatever happened in 2008 they've got over it.
    Exactly!!!

    At least Ireland, Portugal and Spain already overcome most of their economical problems. Greece is also getting on track... Italy is a slightly different situation due to political instability. People can't keep using this argument forever!

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    With 30% unemployment, house prices are somewhat irrelevant. Greece should never have been allowed anywhere near the Eurozone, and while they might be turning a slight corner, their debt is approaching half a trillion Euros, and they were only bailed out for political reasons, not economic ones. Greece can't be allowed to fail, so Germany digs deep. They'll need very deep pockets if Italy, Spain and Portugal fall down the holes they seem to be digging...
    Greece runs a budget surplus. In other words their outgoings which includes interest payments on their debt is lower than their income, and they're growing, their unemployment is coming down sharply.

    At some point you have to admit whatever happened in 2008 they've got over it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Why? Greek house prices crashed. The almost halved in value.

    How is this bad for the poor ?
    With 30% unemployment, house prices are somewhat irrelevant. Greece should never have been allowed anywhere near the Eurozone, and while they might be turning a slight corner, their debt is approaching half a trillion Euros, and they were only bailed out for political reasons, not economic ones. Greece can't be allowed to fail, so Germany digs deep. They'll need very deep pockets if Italy, Spain and Portugal fall down the holes they seem to be digging...

    Leave a comment:


  • BrilloPad
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    Remind me again, how much do they owe Germany?
    Enough to keep them in servitude forever. Thank God the UK is going!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordac
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Quite fascinating in 2009 all the Eurosceptics were predicting Greece would collapse and it was impossible to recover whilst they stayed in the Euro. Unemployment has fallen significantly and the stock market is soaring.

    Remind me again, how much do they owe Germany?

    Leave a comment:


  • BrilloPad
    replied
    I gave up the control the day I got married. Twice.....

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
    That is a good effect!

    Sadly it is nothing the only one. Just one example Greek debt crisis: 'I wasn't paid for two years' - BBC News
    Entrepreneurs with employees are not poor people. As you know if you own your business your salary is a "nice to have". His business survived.

    Tough but temporary.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X