Reply to: EU ensuring Farage wins a landslide

[Big Blue Plymouth]

Whether it is a good idea or not, its the only achievable way for the UK to leave.

Would it be such a disaster? Many times disasters have been predicted and they have not cone true.

As Mike Rutherford from Genesis remarked over people leaving Genesis, at the time they all thought it would be disastrous. But actually it worked out well.

Or to pick another example, Mervyn King writing to the times along with 363 other so called experts to deride the 1981 budget. It worked out quite well....

Except for the listening public :

[Yorkie62]

The trade deals Liam Fox has come back with are actually worse than they were before as part of the EU.

That is not actually true. A quick search on the internet reveals that all trading agreements currently negotiated are generally aligned to those that currently exist as part of the EU.

Brain the size of a planet and I still have to communicate with morons

[meridian]

You are right no country, including the UK wants to be on WTO, but WTO is a basis on which to start.

The UK is not able to negotiate any trade deals whilst still a member of the EU, but after we have left the EU we need trade deals in place. It's the ultimate handcuffs and shackles to the EU. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

If the EU, as part of the previous 3 years negotiations had accepted that the UK was leaving and allowed the UK to negotiate trade deals that could be enacted upon at the point of leaving we would be in a much better situation post Brexit. But the EU will not allow that to happen, as it would make No-Deal so much easier and that cannot be allowed to happen.

Not “the EU” restricting us from other trade deals. but the terms of the international treaty that we are a part of.

Until we leave that treaty, we are bound by it.

[original PM]

The trade deals Liam Fox has come back with are actually worse than they were before as part of the EU.

Yes... but we would not have been part of the EU would we?

Which gives many other freedoms.

[BlasterBates]

You are right no country, including the UK wants to be on WTO, but WTO is a basis on which to start.

The UK is not able to negotiate any trade deals whilst still a member of the EU, but after we have left the EU we need trade deals in place. It's the ultimate handcuffs and shackles to the EU. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

If the EU, as part of the previous 3 years negotiations had accepted that the UK was leaving and allowed the UK to negotiate trade deals that could be enacted upon at the point of leaving we would be in a much better situation post Brexit. But the EU will not allow that to happen, as it would make No-Deal so much easier and that cannot be allowed to happen.

The trade deals Liam Fox has come back with are actually worse than they were before as part of the EU.

[Yorkie62]

No it’s not. Sign the WA and we’ve left. Easy, and less disruptive than not signing and leaving anyway.




You’re cherry-picking unrelated examples and correlating them to justify something completely different.

Do you realise how ridiculous that argument sounds?
“No other country wants to be WTO-only, why is is a good idea for the UK?”
“Mike Rutherford and Genesis....”

You are right no country, including the UK wants to be on WTO, but WTO is a basis on which to start.

The UK is not able to negotiate any trade deals whilst still a member of the EU, but after we have left the EU we need trade deals in place. It's the ultimate handcuffs and shackles to the EU. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

If the EU, as part of the previous 3 years negotiations had accepted that the UK was leaving and allowed the UK to negotiate trade deals that could be enacted upon at the point of leaving we would be in a much better situation post Brexit. But the EU will not allow that to happen, as it would make No-Deal so much easier and that cannot be allowed to happen.

[meridian]

Whether it is a good idea or not, its the only achievable way for the UK to leave.

No it’s not. Sign the WA and we’ve left. Easy, and less disruptive than not signing and leaving anyway.

Would it be such a disaster? Many times disasters have been predicted and they have not cone true.

As Mike Rutherford from Genesis remarked over people leaving Genesis, at the time they all thought it would be disastrous. But actually it worked out well.

Or to pick another example, Mervyn King writing to the times along with 363 other so called experts to deride the 1981 budget. It worked out quite well....

You’re cherry-picking unrelated examples and correlating them to justify something completely different.

Do you realise how ridiculous that argument sounds?
“No other country wants to be WTO-only, why is is a good idea for the UK?”
“Mike Rutherford and Genesis....”

[BrilloPad]

So never any deal? No trading relationship except on WTO terms? If that was such a good idea, why isn’t everyone (anyone) trying to get back to basic WTO terms?

Whether it is a good idea or not, its the only achievable way for the UK to leave.

Would it be such a disaster? Many times disasters have been predicted and they have not cone true.

As Mike Rutherford from Genesis remarked over people leaving Genesis, at the time they all thought it would be disastrous. But actually it worked out well.

Or to pick another example, Mervyn King writing to the times along with 363 other so called experts to deride the 1981 budget. It worked out quite well....

[meridian]

No way would it be achievable.

Then take 4 years. Or 6. Or 10.

Is it achievable in any space of time? If so, then set that time and plan for it. Short term pain for long term gain, isn’t it?

And Brexiters want to leave with no deal. Its the only way.

So never any deal? No trading relationship except on WTO terms? If that was such a good idea, why isn’t everyone (anyone) trying to get back to basic WTO terms?

[BrilloPad]

If they’d voted for the WA then we’d be out, and have a two year transition period in which to sort out the border and the future relationship. It would be hard work, but achievable.

Sometimes it’s almost as if Brexiters don’t actually want to leave, they’d just be happier moaning about things.

No way would it be achievable.

And Brexiters want to leave with no deal. Its the only way.

[meridian]

And no-one believes their manifesto 2019.

If they had voted for WA the UK would now be stuffed,. A vassal state in limbo. There are only 2 ways forward - remain or no deal. I think the UK now falls into 2 camps. Those that understand that. And those who no longer care - its just too boring.

If they’d voted for the WA then we’d be out, and have a two year transition period in which to sort out the border and the future relationship. It would be hard work, but achievable.

Sometimes it’s almost as if Brexiters don’t actually want to leave, they’d just be happier moaning about things.

[BrilloPad]

No, their EU manifestos for 2019. They are the only two main parties that have Brexit in it.

You might have forgotten, but if the hard Brexiters had voted for the WA we’d be out by now.

And no-one believes their manifesto 2019.

If they had voted for WA the UK would now be stuffed,. A vassal state in limbo. There are only 2 ways forward - remain or no deal. I think the UK now falls into 2 camps. Those that understand that. And those who no longer care - its just too boring.

[meridian]

It was in their manifesto in 2017. Both said result of referendum would be honoured.

No-one believes that ConLab are Brexit parties. Well, perhaps a few thickos. Both are stuffed with Remainer MPs. A few (like TM) want such a soft Brexit it will just make the UK worse off. Having to abide by EU rules, with no say on them, and unable to make our own trade deals.

No, their EU manifestos for 2019. They are the only two main parties that have Brexit in it.

You might have forgotten, but if the hard Brexiters had voted for the WA we’d be out by now.

[BrilloPad]

Not quite. There are only two main parties that have Brexit in their manifesto - Labour and the Conservatives.

It was in their manifesto in 2017. Both said result of referendum would be honoured.

No-one believes that ConLab are Brexit parties. Well, perhaps a few thickos. Both are stuffed with Remainer MPs. A few (like TM) want such a soft Brexit it will just make the UK worse off. Having to abide by EU rules, with no say on them, and unable to make our own trade deals.

[meridian]

Farage has a huge advantage. There is basically only one Brexit party(anyone who votes UKIP now is a racist).

Remain has several parties splitting the vote.

I hope this will lead to better UK governance. But it probably won't. The only chance the UK has now is remaining and being run from Brussels.

Not quite. There are only two main parties that have Brexit in their manifesto - Labour and the Conservatives.