Reply to: For richer or for poorer

[meridian]

Yeah the article was about the Swinging sixties - which obviously runs from 60 to 70 - but you have to remember rationing only stopped in 1954 - so really the country was still trying to pick itself up after the war.

The part about not working is inferred - not ever body alive at that point was living in poverty - and so yes there is an interpolation that the circumstances people find them selves in was not 100% not their fault.

Also you do know there are people who would happily rob you of every single thing you own and then take a tulip on your cooling corpse - and then try and tell everyone else there are poor and need money - and a country should also be judged by how the deal with those types of people.

“Not working” and being on the welfare is only being inferred by you.

By your logic, with the U.K. at historic levels of employment, there is no poverty in the country right now.

Or perhaps all those millions that are “just about managing” and are a single pay check away from disaster are in circumstances that are their own fault...

[sasguru]

Yeah the article was about the Swinging sixties - which obviously runs from 60 to 70 - but you have to remember rationing only stopped in 1954 - so really the country was still trying to pick itself up after the war.

The part about not working is inferred - not ever body alive at that point was living in poverty - and so yes there is an interpolation that the circumstances people find them selves in was not 100% not their fault.

Also you do know there are people who would happily rob you of every single thing you own and then take a tulip on your cooling corpse - and then try and tell everyone else there are poor and need money - and a country should also be judged by how the deal with those types of people.

It says clearly the pictures are from 1968-1972.
There's a reason why the Uk begged to get into the EU in the early 1970s, it was increasingly falling behind Europe.
https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-...d-09f7778e7377

And interestingly, every forecaster, even the most optimistic, sees growth of no more than 1.5% for the next 5 years.
That's with a soft Brexit.
With a hard Brexit I have no doubt there'll be a severe and long lasting recession.

[original PM]

Try again with your maths. The article says 1968-1972. Split the difference, that’s 1970. 25 years after WWII.

The U.K. at that time was the “sick man” of Europe. Ironic that Ireland was even worse, so of course plenty of Irish moved to the U.K. at that time. You have no way of knowing whether or not the parents were British subjects from that story though.

Where did you get that from the story? That they did not work, or that they expected everyone else to pick up the bill?

I think it’s important to remember that a society is judged by how it treats its less well-off, and on that measure you fail.

Yeah the article was about the Swinging sixties - which obviously runs from 60 to 70 - but you have to remember rationing only stopped in 1954 - so really the country was still trying to pick itself up after the war.

The part about not working is inferred - not ever body alive at that point was living in poverty - and so yes there is an interpolation that the circumstances people find them selves in was not 100% not their fault.

Also you do know there are people who would happily rob you of every single thing you own and then take a tulip on your cooling corpse - and then try and tell everyone else there are poor and need money - and a country should also be judged by how the deal with those types of people.

[meridian]

Or 15 years after world war 2 - if you want to put it that way.

Try again with your maths. The article says 1968-1972. Split the difference, that’s 1970. 25 years after WWII.

Terrible shocking pictures - but wait all of the UK was not like this so why did these people - for example the family of 9 which came over from Ireland - have nothing???

The U.K. at that time was the “sick man” of Europe. Ironic that Ireland was even worse, so of course plenty of Irish moved to the U.K. at that time. You have no way of knowing whether or not the parents were British subjects from that story though.

Was it

a) Because nobody had anything.
b) They had 7 kids they could not afford, did not work and generally expected everyone else to pick up the bill?

I think it is important to remember that sometimes 'victims of circumstance' often contributed greatly to the 'circumstances' they found themselves in.

Where did you get that from the story? That they did not work, or that they expected everyone else to pick up the bill?

I think it’s important to remember that a society is judged by how it treats its less well-off, and on that measure you fail.

[darmstadt]

The entire graphic is meaningless to the point of propaganda. Some of the poorest regions in Europe have simply been omitted.

Also, having been in the EU for 41 years one would argue that the EU is the cause of UK poverty rather than the solution. I've got news for you, we haven't left yet, you just nixed your own argument.

Shows how much people actually take in. I wonder if people noticed that it says Northern Europe only...

[original PM]

For a sense of perspective. here's what many parts of Britain looked like pre-EU.

Slum Britain: 50 Years On revisits the children who shocked Swinging Sixties Britain | Daily Mail Online

Or 15 years after world war 2 - if you want to put it that way.

Terrible shocking pictures - but wait all of the UK was not like this so why did these people - for example the family of 9 which came over from Ireland - have nothing???

Was it

a) Because nobody had anything.
b) They had 7 kids they could not afford, did not work and generally expected everyone else to pick up the bill?

I think it is important to remember that sometimes 'victims of circumstance' often contributed greatly to the 'circumstances' they found themselves in.

[meridian]

Forced??

I know many who choose to and then spend the money they save on beer n fags.....

Excellent. Only 3,999,996 that are forced to, then.

The plural of anecdote is not “data”.

[sasguru]

For a sense of perspective. here's what many parts of Britain looked like pre-EU.

Slum Britain: 50 Years On revisits the children who shocked Swinging Sixties Britain | Daily Mail Online

[original PM]

Forced??

I know many who choose to and then spend the money they save on beer n fags.....

[meridian]

so seemed to be doing ok ish until 10 years of labour.....

not sure whether it was the rich upper class twits or the socialist lefties spending everyone else's money.

Well, this is timely. 4 million using food banks, must be Labour and their socialist policies.

[meridian]

For richer or for poorer

so seemed to be doing ok ish until 10 years of labour.....

not sure whether it was the rich upper class twits or the socialist lefties spending everyone else's money.

Probably the latter, that’s why our national debt has reduced significantly since the Tories have been in power.

[WTFH]

I may be pro EU but, I'm not taking everything they say for granted

There are poor parts of inner London, but in terms of money generated - that's where it comes from.
Same with Groningen.
Groningen has generated close to €300billion in natural gas extracts, but less than half a percent of that has come back into the region.

Compare that with Cornwall which generates close to zero money, but gets bailed out by the EU - the freeloaders in the South West have received over £1billion in funding since 1999

[meridian]

The entire graphic is meaningless to the point of propaganda. Some of the poorest regions in Europe have simply been omitted.

Also, having been in the EU for 41 years one would argue that the EU is the cause of UK poverty rather than the solution. I've got news for you, we haven't left yet, you just nixed your own argument.

Yes they have been omitted, but do you want to compare the U.K. to Bulgaria and Romania, or do you think the world’s 6th or 7th largest economy should be compared to equivalent neighbours such as France, Germany, and Scandinavia?

It’s also funny how those countries are also a part of the EU but haven’t suffered as much. It’s almost as if it’s an internal problem, not an EU problem.

[Eirikur]

Surely you are not critiquing the EU fact generator are you?

It is all true because you have been told it is all true.

I may be pro EU but, I'm not taking everything they say for granted

[original PM]

This picture sucks, how can one of the poorest regions in The Netherlands (Groningen) be in the top 10 richest of Europe. They have a lot of natural gas, but that wealth is going directly into the coffers of Shell and the government, not many local people profit from it, the unemployment rates in that area are very high

Surely you are not critiquing the EU fact generator are you?

It is all true because you have been told it is all true.