Reply to: UK to offer new immigration deal to the EU

[Bean]

Still not answered your contradiction.
You used the term ECONOMIC migrant when referring to students.
I challenged you on the use of ECONOMIC. Since then you've failed to provide any link that says "all student migrants are economic migrants".
Now, maybe it's just another one of those pesky mistakes which changes your figure of 93.5% down to 41%, so maybe that's why you don't want to answer.

My original post quoted your unedited original, you then edited your original to include a quote from darmy, where you highlighted the word economic.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...ta=&gws_rd=ssl

economic migrant
noun: economic migrant; plural noun: economic migrants
a person who travels from one country or area to another in order to improve their standard of living.

What are students hoping a degree will give them?

HTH

[WTFH]

So, in this link;
https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/definitions

it states;
"Migrant

While there is no formal legal definition of an international migrant, most experts agree that an international migrant is someone who changes his or her country of usual residence, irrespective of the reason for migration or legal status. "



In this link;
Who Counts as a Migrant? Definitions and their Consequences - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory

it states;
"Definitions of ‘migrant’ vary among different data sources, and between datasets and law. Among other possibilities, migrants may be defined as foreign-born, foreign nationals, or people who have moved to the UK for a year or more."

and also states that;
"Length of stay: In its analyses of migration flows into and out of Britain, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) uses the UN definition of ‘long-term international migrant’: “A person who moves to a country other than that of his or her usual residence for a period of at least a year [….] so that the country of destination effectively becomes his or her new country of usual residence”."

HTH

Still not answered your contradiction.
You used the term ECONOMIC migrant when referring to students.
I challenged you on the use of ECONOMIC. Since then you've failed to provide any link that says "all student migrants are economic migrants".
Now, maybe it's just another one of those pesky mistakes which changes your figure of 93.5% down to 41%, so maybe that's why you don't want to answer.

My original post quoted your unedited original, you then edited your original to include a quote from darmy, where you highlighted the word economic.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

"In 2016, there were around 39,000 applications for asylum in the UK. That’s including dependant family members of the main applicant. Those asylum seekers are counted among the estimated 600,000 immigrants to the UK in the 12 months to September 2016, most of whom come to work or study."

So, (39000/~600000)*100 = 6.5% of estimated immigrants applied for asylum, the rest are economic (93.5%).



Yes, see above
HTH

[Bean]

Still unable to find a link that refutes the government and lumps those who come to study with those who come seeking work.

Go back and read your original post (unless you've edited it)

You quoted a source as saying:


You then declared:


All I have asked you to do is explain why you disagree with the government (but have decided that I am making up government websites).
Are the >317,000 student migrants who come here economic migrants (like you claim) or not (like the government and the fullfact page you link to say)

Your post contradicted itself, all that was asked was for you to clarify which contradiction you had decided was right.

So, in this link;
https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/definitions

it states;
"Migrant

While there is no formal legal definition of an international migrant, most experts agree that an international migrant is someone who changes his or her country of usual residence, irrespective of the reason for migration or legal status. "



In this link;
Who Counts as a Migrant? Definitions and their Consequences - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory

it states;
"Definitions of ‘migrant’ vary among different data sources, and between datasets and law. Among other possibilities, migrants may be defined as foreign-born, foreign nationals, or people who have moved to the UK for a year or more."

and also states that;
"Length of stay: In its analyses of migration flows into and out of Britain, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) uses the UN definition of ‘long-term international migrant’: “A person who moves to a country other than that of his or her usual residence for a period of at least a year [….] so that the country of destination effectively becomes his or her new country of usual residence”."

HTH

[WTFH]

Wrong link and therefore organisation, oops my bad, haha

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/definitions

but here's some more links for you to take your pick;

Who Counts as a Migrant? Definitions and their Consequences - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory

https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=1562
^^ this refers to the UN;
"long-term immigrants are non-residents or persons who have arrived for a length of stay of more than one year but have not yet continuously lived in the country for more than one year."

Still unable to find a link that refutes the government and lumps those who come to study with those who come seeking work.

Go back and read your original post (unless you've edited it)

You quoted a source as saying:

Those asylum seekers are counted among the estimated 600,000 immigrants to the UK in the 12 months to September 2016, most of whom come to work or study."

You then declared:

So, (39000/~600000)*100 = 6.5% of estimated immigrants applied for asylum, the rest are economic.

All I have asked you to do is explain why you disagree with the government (but have decided that I am making up government websites).
Are the >317,000 student migrants who come here economic migrants (like you claim) or not (like the government and the fullfact page you link to say)

Your post contradicted itself, all that was asked was for you to clarify which contradiction you had decided was right.

[Bean]

Please quote the exact section of the page you linked to which disagrees with the UK government (not me), with regard to your opinion that people coming to study are economic migrants.

Wrong link and therefore organisation, oops my bad, haha

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/definitions

but here's some more links for you to take your pick;

Who Counts as a Migrant? Definitions and their Consequences - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory

https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=1562
^^ this refers to the UN;
"long-term immigrants are non-residents or persons who have arrived for a length of stay of more than one year but have not yet continuously lived in the country for more than one year."

[WTFH]

Sorry, but some authoritative organisation(s) disagree with your view;

Migrant | United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

Please quote the exact section of the page you linked to which disagrees with the UK government (not me), with regard to your opinion that people coming to study are economic migrants.

[Bean]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-uk-3-to-study
317,000 study visas last year which would be about 53% of your 600,000

Sorry, but some authoritative organisation(s) disagree with your view;

Migrant | United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

[Bean]

Are you saying that everyone who comes to study in the UK is an economic migrant?

Only the long-term ones, as per UN definition, referred to in;

https://www.ft.com/content/1c61c180-...a-903b21361b43

and more detail found here;
http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-...ssary/migrant/

[Mordac]

It was always about anti immigrants, especially from Eastern Europe

Only in your case...

[WTFH]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-uk-3-to-study
317,000 study visas last year which would be about 53% of your 600,000

[WTFH]

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

"In 2016, there were around 39,000 applications for asylum in the UK. That’s including dependant family members of the main applicant. Those asylum seekers are counted among the estimated 600,000 immigrants to the UK in the 12 months to September 2016, most of whom come to work or study."

So, (39000/~600000)*100 = 6.5% of estimated immigrants applied for asylum, the rest are economic.

HTH

Are you saying that everyone who comes to study in the UK is an economic migrant?

[Bean]

Ah, the Daily Mail fact bible...But this still doesn't point to immigration in the UK as they only got as far as Cologne, also doesn't actually answer the question in point, but that's to be expected as facts were never a Brexit strong point

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

"In 2016, there were around 39,000 applications for asylum in the UK. That’s including dependant family members of the main applicant. Those asylum seekers are counted among the estimated 600,000 immigrants to the UK in the 12 months to September 2016, most of whom come to work or study."

So, (39000/~600000)*100 = 6.5% of estimated immigrants applied for asylum, the rest are economic (93.5%).

Do you have proof of that? Can you quite honestly say that most of the migrants are economic migrants, now remember, we're talking about non-EU folk here because they don't have freedom of movement but can be stopped by the UK border agency from entering the country. SNIP

Yes, see above
HTH

[darmstadt]

We have been here before

Step 1
Arrive in southern european country

Step 2
Claim you are 14 and a refugee from war

Step 3
Hit your mates up on your iPhone and rob some new trainers

Step 4
Head to Cologne station to celebrate new year,


But putting that aside.

Immigration and a perceived lack of control was one of the factors which contributed to some people voting Brexit - there you go is that acceptable?

Ah, the Daily Mail fact bible...But this still doesn't point to immigration in the UK as they only got as far as Cologne, also doesn't actually answer the question in point, but that's to be expected as facts were never a Brexit strong point

[original PM]

Do you have proof of that? Can you quite honestly say that most of the migrants are economic migrants, now remember, we're talking about non-EU folk here because they don't have freedom of movement but can be stopped by the UK border agency from entering the country. If they are allowed into the country then surely they're not economic migrants are they but suffering from war, torture and other such subjects that you haven't encountered. Now please don't tell me that it wasn't about immigration....

We have been here before

Step 1
Arrive in southern european country

Step 2
Claim you are 14 and a refugee from war

Step 3
Hit your mates up on your iPhone and rob some new trainers

Step 4
Head to Cologne station to celebrate new year,


But putting that aside.

Immigration and a perceived lack of control was one of the factors which contributed to some people voting Brexit - there you go is that acceptable?

[darmstadt]

I have no problems with 'foreigners' as you so nicely put it.

I have problems with large numbers of economic migrants who do not have their host countries best interest at heart.

Do you have proof of that? Can you quite honestly say that most of the migrants are economic migrants, now remember, we're talking about non-EU folk here because they don't have freedom of movement but can be stopped by the UK border agency from entering the country. If they are allowed into the country then surely they're not economic migrants are they but suffering from war, torture and other such subjects that you haven't encountered. Now please don't tell me that it wasn't about immigration....