Reply to: Brexit - How do you define a negotiation?

[saptastic]

Oh great vote for Labour.

yes unfortunately - the grass isn't greener.......

[SueEllen]

May be 'trivial' in the grand scheme of future UK/EU trading profit to the UK, but when many people are feeling the real world cutbacks and increased council taxes for less local services, the headline figures are bound to raise yet more ill feeling towards a government that has been absolutely pathetic in their attempts to manage the people's vote for brexit so far.

Shame we have to wait until the next election to be allowed a vote of no confidence.

Oh great vote for Labour.

[Hobosapien]

So we have found 40 billion down the back of the sofa (as in reality that is not a huge amount of money) we can give it to the EU to see if that stimulates them to start actual adult negotiations.

May be 'trivial' in the grand scheme of future UK/EU trading profit to the UK, but when many people are feeling the real world cutbacks and increased council taxes for less local services, the headline figures are bound to raise yet more ill feeling towards a government that has been absolutely pathetic in their attempts to manage the people's vote for brexit so far.

Shame we have to wait until the next election to be allowed a vote of no confidence.

[meridian]

Yep, I agree, would be nice to see the breakdown - I imagine somewhere on that list is a future bill for champagne.

Only partially offset by Davis's whiskey bill. Allegedly.

[woohoo]

I agree with that last bit. The problem we have as genpub is that we only get to see a figure bandied about. We have no idea what details are being discussed behind closed doors by the civil servants, or what is being agreed on a line by line basis by Davis / Barnier.

Yep, I agree, would be nice to see the breakdown - I imagine somewhere on that list is a future bill for champagne.

[meridian]

C4 is pro-EU in my opinion bit like the Guardian. But there is nothing in that article that is not new. Personally, I think if we have committed to EU funding and it's reasonable to do so then we should honor that. No big deal. However, it's correct that it should be assessed.

I agree with that last bit. The problem we have as genpub is that we only get to see a figure bandied about. We have no idea what details are being discussed behind closed doors by the civil servants, or what is being agreed on a line by line basis by Davis / Barnier.

[woohoo]

You've said something on Brexit I agree with. Quoting it for posterity.

It's nice to see you are learning from me, this time next year you won't be so dumb-dumb.

[WTFH]

Personally, I think if we have committed to EU funding and it's reasonable to do so then we should honor that. No big deal. .

You've said something on Brexit I agree with. Quoting it for posterity.

[woohoo]

Here’s a little bit more of the explanation as to why:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ll-from-the-eu

(I am unsure whether C4 is considered too pro-EU to count for some, but the above tries to explain it, I’d suggest reading the article for understanding while paying less credence to the numbers that it quotes)

C4 is pro-EU in my opinion bit like the Guardian. But there is nothing in that article that is not new. Personally, I think if we have committed to EU funding and it's reasonable to do so then we should honor that. No big deal. However, it's correct that it should be assessed.

sorry guys forgot this is your doom and gloom forum.

[northernladyuk]

The fact is the sum owed by the UK will depend on how you calculate it.

However the EU are simple unable or unwilling to do anything until a 'sum' has been agreed

So we have found 40 billion down the back of the sofa (as in reality that is not a huge amount of money) we can give it to the EU to see if that stimulates them to start actual adult negotiations.

There is no need to pay for any inconvenience caused - remember this a voluntary union so leaving it should just be a process not an inconvenience.

Unless the reason you want to keep it together is slightly more nefarious than you want to let on to the general public.

There is no ;inconvenience; at all in the process of leaving the EU. In fact, Article 50 is superfluous, as the UK could have simply repealed the 1972 European Communities Act, along with a few other bits of legislation as well. See: https://services.parliament.uk/bills...972repeal.html

The ;inconvenience; comes from managing the impact of withdrawal and negotiating a new relationship, not helped by outstanding British government incompetence.

[original PM]

It does not matter if it's 0, what matters is how much EU wants for the inconvenience caused - if not fully paid then it will cost UK more in a long run due to bad deal (AKA no deal), thank Lord the EU is reasonable and does not ask for a trillion euros.

The fact is the sum owed by the UK will depend on how you calculate it.

However the EU are simple unable or unwilling to do anything until a 'sum' has been agreed

So we have found 40 billion down the back of the sofa (as in reality that is not a huge amount of money) we can give it to the EU to see if that stimulates them to start actual adult negotiations.

There is no need to pay for any inconvenience caused - remember this a voluntary union so leaving it should just be a process not an inconvenience.

Unless the reason you want to keep it together is slightly more nefarious than you want to let on to the general public.

[northernladyuk]

It's nice to see you guys have your own thread. Group-think at it's finest, along with a bit of self-loathing.

OK will leave you to it, cheer up.

[WTFH]

Here’s a little bit more of the explanation as to why:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ll-from-the-eu

(I am unsure whether C4 is considered too pro-EU to count for some, but the above tries to explain it, I’d suggest reading the article for understanding while paying less credence to the numbers that it quotes)

[woohoo]

It's nice to see you guys have your own thread. Group-think at it's finest, along with a bit of self-loathing.

OK will leave you to it, cheer up.

[WTFH]

And why do they talk about negotiating a divorce bill of between £20bn - £100bn

The higher figures have all originated in the Express/Mail/etc.

Does anyone know what is the UK legally obliged to pay?

It depends on who you ask. The UK entered into funding agreements a few years ago that run until the early 2020s. That funding is for projects such as the infrastructure ones you’ll see in Wales etc, and whether the UK is legally obliged to pay or not, I’m unsure, but unpicking that agreement would be a fun exercise.
Some will claim that it’s “The EU’s problem”, the simple response is that it was the UK that chose to leave the EU, so the UK has created the problem, therefore a “No deal” situation would mean the UK would need to repay every penny it has currently agreed to pay, because the UK has not negotiated a deal to pay less. This will be disputed by those who have been taught to believe that all evil comes from the EU and running away from it fast while ignoring any commitments and consequences will have no effect because (...insert spurious jingoistic reason here that is not founded in reality)