Reply to: re IR35 - I am responsible?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Haya all, thank you very much indeed for your comments and advice- much much appreciated!!!
I agree with all of you that the umbrella option is probably the best option for me at the moment, at least until I find my way around Ltd companies as suggested, plus I have to manage and pull myself together and recover from my recent horrendous working experience!

For the record,
I did express my concerns re:IR35 to both to the agency and to Paystream and the latter offered to ask their IR35 team to liaise with the agency and review my case/contract as a matter of urgency and get back to me asap. The agency re-assured me they have a very friendly IR35 contract and there is no way I could be seen as a 'disguised employee' and also happy to put this in writing, but also happy to work with paystream's IR35 team to both confirm this to my satisfaction (they said!).
I think I will wait and see what they come back with tomorrow and if anything exciting I will share with all of you and in case my 'story' helps anyone else in similar position...aaahhhh

Thank you very much once again all you fantastic people!!

Changing the contract or indeed writing one to be outside IR35 is all very well but it won't do you a lot of good if your working practices will actually put you inside IR35. If, in reality, there is supervision, direction and control or you actually couldn't send in a sub chances are you would be inside IR35 regardless of what's written about either subject in the contract

[katep]

Haya all, thank you very much indeed for your comments and advice- much much appreciated!!!
I agree with all of you that the umbrella option is probably the best option for me at the moment, at least until I find my way around Ltd companies as suggested, plus I have to manage and pull myself together and recover from my recent horrendous working experience!

For the record,
I did express my concerns re:IR35 to both to the agency and to Paystream and the latter offered to ask their IR35 team to liaise with the agency and review my case/contract as a matter of urgency and get back to me asap. The agency re-assured me they have a very friendly IR35 contract and there is no way I could be seen as a 'disguised employee' and also happy to put this in writing, but also happy to work with paystream's IR35 team to both confirm this to my satisfaction (they said!).
I think I will wait and see what they come back with tomorrow and if anything exciting I will share with all of you and in case my 'story' helps anyone else in similar position...aaahhhh

Thank you very much once again all you fantastic people!!

[TheFaQQer]

HMRC reads these forums and I don't see why I should be a target because of others that can't be bothered.

It would be nice if they asked you for your user name, then realised that some are more clued up than others and they won't win, and then pissed off somewhere else.

But I don't think that's going to happen somehow.

[TheFaQQer]

I've mentioned this idea a number of times. I know in the US the IRS will quite happily leave you alone if you can deliver them better wins. I would certainly be up for this kind of approach over here. You can already dob people in for tax evasion and pocket some of the money they gather but I don't think it well let you off the hook if you are the target of an investigation.

If there was something in it for me, I might do it. If there wasn't, then they can find their own targets, unless I particularly didn't like someone (and there are a couple that immediately spring to mind).

In the meantime, they can argue it out with my insurance provider.

[NickNick]

If HMRC ever come calling, I know of some easier targets to go for than me

Yes, but do they?

[northernladuk]

Those that ask for expert advice show that they know what to look for; it's those that are oblivious and don't ask for advice that are a danger to themselves.

And I would argue they are a danger to those who are genuinely in business and put a lot of effort in to proving as we are under the same microscope and get hit by the same legislation that is trying to deal with people who don't care. That's why I get so wound up by people asking stupid questions and not caring about what they do on here. HMRC reads these forums and I don't see why I should be a target because of others that can't be bothered.

If HMRC ever come calling, I know of some easier targets to go for than me

I've mentioned this idea a number of times. I know in the US the IRS will quite happily leave you alone if you can deliver them better wins. I would certainly be up for this kind of approach over here. You can already dob people in for tax evasion and pocket some of the money they gather but I don't think it well let you off the hook if you are the target of an investigation.

[northernladuk]

Some accountants maybe. I preferred a more ethical approach

Ahh lol. Well I am a contractor and a Yorkshire bloke. Taking money from stupid people is not only my job it's I'm my blood

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

"It's going to take a couple of hours, that will be £99 please"
"Ok here you go"
"It's outside IR35"
"Wow that was quick, what a terrific service"

Some accountants maybe. I preferred a more ethical approach

[Clare@InTouch]

Those that ask for expert advice show that they know what to look for; it's those that are oblivious and don't ask for advice that are a danger to themselves.

If HMRC ever come calling, I know of some easier targets to go for than me

It's the ones who fail a working conditions questionnaire then call to say "actually, that's not what I meant, what I really meant was that of course I can substitute" that worry me more!

[TheFaQQer]

Holy crap. People are more aware now? I would hate to seen what it was like before!!

Those that ask for expert advice show that they know what to look for; it's those that are oblivious and don't ask for advice that are a danger to themselves.

If HMRC ever come calling, I know of some easier targets to go for than me

[northernladuk]

Perhaps the lowest point of professional life was when a client sent a PCG template, asked us to review it for IR35,


"Has your agency agreed it?"
"Oh no, I've not mentioned it them, I just want to know if it works before I ask them"

"It's going to take a couple of hours, that will be £99 please"
"Ok here you go"
"It's outside IR35"
"Wow that was quick, what a terrific service"

Happily that was a good few years ago, and awareness is now better.

Holy crap. People are more aware now? I would hate to seen what it was like before!!

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Absolutely right - how would your accountant know what your working practices are?

Yep, it comes as a shock to some clients that if we are doing a "contract" review we need a detailed working practices questionnaire first.

Perhaps the lowest point of professional life was when a client sent a PCG template, asked us to review it for IR35,

"Has your agency agreed it?"
"Oh no, I've not mentioned it them, I just want to know if it works before I ask them"

Happily that was a good few years ago, and awareness is now better.

[Clare@InTouch]

Absolutely right - how would your accountant know what your working practices are?

Indeed, or that you've given them full disclosure. Your accountant may tell you that in their opinion you're outside, but if you've forgotten to tell them a few keys facts then that may not be the case.

As a company director you're responsible for everything - preparing and filing accounts, paying taxes, checking your status etc. You have professionals that help, for example an accountant who will prepare your tax return ready for you to sign, but you retain ultimate responsibility. If there is an error, it's still your fault in HMRC's eyes. So make sure you understand what your obligations are, how returns and taxes are calculated, and when things are due.

[TheFaQQer]

a friend advised me that "Even if the accountant tells you it's alright, remember it will still be you who's responsible, not your accountant, if you are ever inspected by HMRC!! "

Absolutely right - how would your accountant know what your working practices are?

[GillsMan]

Go umbrella for the first few months while you find your feet and learn about LTDs and get set up. Once you are ready just switch to a limited. Might cost you a little bit extra but would be much more beneficial than messing everything up because you can't understand companies from the off.

100% this. It's what I did and I don't regret it for a second. Gave me the time I needed to learn being a contractor first, then learn being a company director.