Reply to: Can I sue?

[BlasterBates]

This sounds like systematic fraud. If you are chasing them anyway might be worth reporting this, and perhaps getting in touch with others to encourage them to do the same. Once there are several complaints, it might help to make them more co-operative.

[nucastle]

Thanks I'll get in touch with them.

Was speaking to an ex-colleague at the same company on friday and he told me that another ex-contractor is going through the EXACT same bother with them. This time for TWO months of work.

Clearly standard operating procedure at this place. I'll never work for an 'IT shop' ever again.

[Taita]

The Umbrella doesn't want to know as they still think a contract has not been breached.

I asked them what was to stop any client refusing to pay by 'claiming' that their end client refused to pay, or disputed the time spent on things, or by claiming that the work was not of a good standard .... they didn't have any real answer to that.

So - I think getting in touch with a solicitor who can 'encourage' my Umbrella that there is something to pursue here, is probably what I should do next. I think i'm done with trying to convince them via email that its not 'cool' that i've had just shy of 4 weeks earnings taken from me.

Any contractor friendly solicitors anyone can recommend?

The end client is of no consequence. The brolly is your employer and the conditions of your contract will apply. Very likely there is a condition absolving them of responsibility but also likely that it has not been tested in a tribunal. Check with ACAS and if they think you have a case pursue it vigorously.

www.acas.org.uk/

[Safe Collections]

The Umbrella doesn't want to know as they still think a contract has not been breached.

I asked them what was to stop any client refusing to pay by 'claiming' that their end client refused to pay, or disputed the time spent on things, or by claiming that the work was not of a good standard .... they didn't have any real answer to that.

So - I think getting in touch with a solicitor who can 'encourage' my Umbrella that there is something to pursue here, is probably what I should do next. I think i'm done with trying to convince them via email that its not 'cool' that i've had just shy of 4 weeks earnings taken from me.

Any contractor friendly solicitors anyone can recommend?

As you are technically an employee of the Brolly it might be worth giving ACAS a call prior to actually engaging a solicitor. They are on the web here and the advice is free of charge (unlike a solicitor).

If you don't have any joy with them let us know

[nucastle]

The Umbrella doesn't want to know as they still think a contract has not been breached.

I asked them what was to stop any client refusing to pay by 'claiming' that their end client refused to pay, or disputed the time spent on things, or by claiming that the work was not of a good standard .... they didn't have any real answer to that.

So - I think getting in touch with a solicitor who can 'encourage' my Umbrella that there is something to pursue here, is probably what I should do next. I think i'm done with trying to convince them via email that its not 'cool' that i've had just shy of 4 weeks earnings taken from me.

Any contractor friendly solicitors anyone can recommend?

[Safe Collections]

Bit of an update. The client who refused payment have agreed to pay 4 days instead of the invoiced 18, with the use of some fag packet maths based on a mythical '15 days' that the end-end client supposedly refused the pay.

We badgered them for proof of this, which dragged on, and eventually they came back with this offer.

My umbrella has offered to sign the debt over to me, as they have washed their hands of the issue, claiming it's something they don't do.

SO - Is this something that I can get signed over to me and then get a collection agency on the case? What kind of fees do these people charge?

We tend to charge a percentage based on the age and value

But, we would not recommend that you have the debt signed over to you. Even if done properly (and in our experience it rarely is) it adds another level of confusion to the claim and gives a ready made defence to any court action. Ie "Our contract was with ABC Brolly Ltd not Mr Nucastle".

In our opinion If anyone should be engaging a collection agency, it should be the brolly as they hold the contractual ties to the end client.

[psychocandy]

Bit of an update. The client who refused payment have agreed to pay 4 days instead of the invoiced 18, with the use of some fag packet maths based on a mythical '15 days' that the end-end client supposedly refused the pay.

We badgered them for proof of this, which dragged on, and eventually they came back with this offer.

My umbrella has offered to sign the debt over to me, as they have washed their hands of the issue, claiming it's something they don't do.

SO - Is this something that I can get signed over to me and then get a collection agency on the case? What kind of fees do these people charge?

Yeh umbrella company are not chasing this because its not the ones losing out on payment. Or at least they are but not much and not enough for them to cause hassle.

Time to escalate I feel and focus their attention.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Your umbrella should not be 'passing the debt' to you - they are your employer and they have the b2b contract with the agency - recovery of the debt is their responsibility not yours

[Contreras]

The Brolly should really be taking a hardline with this given the length of time you put in with this particular client. What if anything are the brolly doing or saying to recover this balance? Also be aware that some brolly co's may prefer to pass the buck and assign this debt directly to you, we would generally advise against that as it makes any kind of recovery more complicated.

My umbrella has offered to sign the debt over to me, as they have washed their hands of the issue, claiming it's something they don't do.

SO - Is this something that I can get signed over to me and then get a collection agency on the case? What kind of fees do these people charge?

There's one posting in this thread ^^. How about giving them a call?

[ASB]

Bit of an update. The client who refused payment have agreed to pay 4 days instead of the invoiced 18, with the use of some fag packet maths based on a mythical '15 days' that the end-end client supposedly refused the pay.

We badgered them for proof of this, which dragged on, and eventually they came back with this offer.

My umbrella has offered to sign the debt over to me, as they have washed their hands of the issue, claiming it's something they don't do.

SO - Is this something that I can get signed over to me and then get a collection agency on the case? What kind of fees do these people charge?

take advice. But I thi k the people you need to suing are your umbrella. That is where the contractual nexus lies. Of course the contents of your contract with the brolly become highly relevant.

[nucastle]

Bit of an update. The client who refused payment have agreed to pay 4 days instead of the invoiced 18, with the use of some fag packet maths based on a mythical '15 days' that the end-end client supposedly refused the pay.

We badgered them for proof of this, which dragged on, and eventually they came back with this offer.

My umbrella has offered to sign the debt over to me, as they have washed their hands of the issue, claiming it's something they don't do.

SO - Is this something that I can get signed over to me and then get a collection agency on the case? What kind of fees do these people charge?

[Boo]

We don't think anyone is encouraging you to submit to a fraudulent claim,

AIUI the "fraudulent claim" is being made by the agency wrt the quality of wotk, the OP is not suggesting his/her claim is fraudulent.

Boo

[Safe Collections]

The end client was one project from about 3-4 across a bunch of other clients. I can't go and give a reference for another company if I'm going for work and they want references from past employers (yes, it's the brolly before you get cute )

I hardly see why I should just suck it up if fraudulent claims are being made as a means of withholding payment.

They may very well go and tell the end-end client who will no doubt want them to comment on this, something that 'helps' their claims. Someone who matters? Well it would be if they are now who I'm going to supposedly have to cite as a reference.

I've used fly paper and a jar of sugar and water under my chin for bait

We don't think anyone is encouraging you to submit to a fraudulent claim, but practically you will face difficulties in taking action as an employee of the contracted party.

The Brolly should really be taking a hardline with this given the length of time you put in with this particular client. What if anything are the brolly doing or saying to recover this balance? Also be aware that some brolly co's may prefer to pass the buck and assign this debt directly to you, we would generally advise against that as it makes any kind of recovery more complicated.

In relation to defamation, our suggestion would be to simply ignore any childish claims from the client and just concentrate on the unpaid invoice. Claims for defamation can be extremely expensive and long winded affairs.

[psychocandy]

I'm waiting with baited breath to get an email from the end-end client who i emailed the 'we wont pay as the end-end client refuses to pay' letter, to get digital evidence that they are telling porkies.

At that point It's time to start thinking of how I'm going to deal with these idiots. In the cold light of day this is now 2 years of my life as something I can't go and cite for references, in addition to the claims they have made to my umbrella..... DEFAMATION and affects my ability to get future work.

I'll gladly take every penny i'm due, and hand it to a solicitor to go after them now.

I had similar. One day gig which was a complete shambles due to end customer.

Agency said not paying you cos client is not paying us because their customer is not paying them. My answer to agency - not my problem Im not getting involved in arguments like this - I turned up and I did the work I could in good faith. (It was all to do with contact on site being off sick, no-one else having a clue what was needed, no-one knew any passwords, hardware locked in cupboard, couldnt find key etc. I spend half the day sitting there).

Ended up taking them (agency) to small claims court which was a laugh. They didnt turn up (obviously) so I won. They paid up in full shortly after plus court costs.

[nucastle]

Are you using flies or worms? Or do you mean bated breath?


Why can't you reference the end client?


Only if they have told someone other than the umbrella, ie. someone who matters.

The end client was one project from about 3-4 across a bunch of other clients. I can't go and give a reference for another company if I'm going for work and they want references from past employers (yes, it's the brolly before you get cute )

I hardly see why I should just suck it up if fraudulent claims are being made as a means of withholding payment.

They may very well go and tell the end-end client who will no doubt want them to comment on this, something that 'helps' their claims. Someone who matters? Well it would be if they are now who I'm going to supposedly have to cite as a reference.

I've used fly paper and a jar of sugar and water under my chin for bait