Reply to: Taking breaks

[tractor]

I read a story once about mines at the turn of the 20th century where each miner had a token with their number on it. They would hand that to a 'toilet warden' so that he could register what time the went to the toilet and what time the came back to retrieve their token. Anything over 5 minutes was taken out of their pay.

To make it even worse, they had rusty metal spikes on the wall behind the toilet so no-one would 'sit back and relax'.

Unless they were fakirs

[JRCT]

That would be my worst nightmare

I read a story once about mines at the turn of the 20th century where each miner had a token with their number on it. They would hand that to a 'toilet warden' so that he could register what time the went to the toilet and what time the came back to retrieve their token. Anything over 5 minutes was taken out of their pay.

To make it even worse, they had rusty metal spikes on the wall behind the toilet so no-one would 'sit back and relax'.

[SueEllen]

Agreed, and very much on the people they are dealing with at the client end. If I was paying a bunch of contractors £400 a day I would certainly be aware of this situation in particular. I am all for a bit of give and take and flexibility but if one of them starts making an issue out of 15 mins here and there he would certainly ping on my radar until I am confident this is just a one off and not a general attitude.

People tend to forget that.

If you make a fuss about "mandatory" breaks when it comes to them being flexible with you they won't be.

I had a client where we had to clock in and out and 30 minutes was taken mandatory if you didn't take lunch.

Funny thing was you could be clocked in and not be working on their stuff.

Management didn't mind as long as you didn't make a fuss and delivered what they required on time. So a few contractors did their own projects or alternative client work ensuring they used the right network.

[northernladuk]

I guess that rather depends on the way you approach it with them.

Agreed, and very much on the people they are dealing with at the client end. If I was paying a bunch of contractors £400 a day I would certainly be aware of this situation in particular. I am all for a bit of give and take and flexibility but if one of them starts making an issue out of 15 mins here and there he would certainly ping on my radar until I am confident this is just a one off and not a general attitude.

[ASB]

Apart from the fact you put yourself firmly on their radar and don't expect any more flexibility from the client when you really need it.

I guess that rather depends on the way you approach it with them.

[Brian Potter]

Swipe card to get into bog area is never good either. They can tell how much bog time per day you have then if they wanted to! :-)

That would be my worst nightmare

[psychocandy]

At the end of the day you can argue until you're blue in the face whether you're right or wrong, whether you've got to do these hours, whether you've got to come in this time or not. BUT, if you do something the client doesnt like it wont end well either now or at renewal time.

Personally, I tend to ask the client, so you happy for me to come in x time most days? Or remote working possible?

Of course, the old chestnut is, come in early and not many people see you doing this. Leave early and everyone sees you walking out the door.

In OPs situation, hes making it worse by taking no/short lunch. Everyone is going to assume hes had at least 30 mins anyway. Personally, I ensure I take 30-45 mins or more if I want to and leave little later.

[psychocandy]

Bog + iPhone (or something similar) = paid surfing

I'll be farked when I get a gig where the bogs don't get a decent 3G signal.

Swipe card to get into bog area is never good either. They can tell how much bog time per day you have then if they wanted to! :-)

[northernladuk]

But, there is no harm in approaching them and putting forward a view of "look travel is difficult etc, so I'd prefer to work through the break, is this OK?".

Apart from the fact you put yourself firmly on their radar and don't expect any more flexibility from the client when you really need it.

[ASB]

That's a good point. BUT.. if I'm not required to take the break then it can't be a show-stopper from a h&s point of view. With that being the case, then I'd be much more comfortable (if it were important to me) saying "these are the hours I'm doing - if you don't like it then I'll give my notice".

Assuming you profession does not require mandated breaks for H&S then I can see your point. However, the issue I would see is that the working time regs allow for it. One could make a hypothetical case that one only work the break because the employer effectively forces and removes your right be stealth. Hence the potential differentiation.

But, there is no harm in approaching them and putting forward a view of "look travel is difficult etc, so I'd prefer to work through the break, is this OK?".

[SpontaneousOrder]

No.

but I doubt that is the question you meant to ask. That would be "if you exercise your right not to take a mandated break does that count as chargeable time". Grey area. It would be hard to argue for it.

There is no right to pay. The requirement is in fact for 20 mins on a six hour shift. But there are exceptions.

That's a good point. BUT.. if I'm not required to take the break then it can't be a show-stopper from a h&s point of view. With that being the case, then I'd be much more comfortable (if it were important to me) saying "these are the hours I'm doing - if you don't like it then I'll give my notice".

[SueEllen]

Did s/he schedule a face-to-face meeting to explore it?

He just looked like this

Then others including client managers started to decline his meetings or walk out during them.

Oddly I was offered an extension.....

[Old Greg]

You haven't met one of my ex-clients and how they scheduled meetings which had to be face to face. All the people in the room were shocked when I said very loudly to one of the managers - "Why do you like wasting people's time?"

Did s/he schedule a face-to-face meeting to explore it?

[ASB]

If the client is legally required to provide breaks, are you as a contractor legally obliged to take them?

No.

but I doubt that is the question you meant to ask. That would be "if you exercise your right not to take a mandated break does that count as chargeable time". Grey area. It would be hard to argue for it.

There is no right to pay. The requirement is in fact for 20 mins on a six hour shift. But there are exceptions.

[SueEllen]

If the working environment is poor, I advise that I will be working from my home office and attending site when a face to face meeting is required, and I aim the schedule these on one or two days per week. It cuts down on travel costs as well.

You haven't met one of my ex-clients and how they scheduled meetings which had to be face to face. All the people in the room were shocked when I said very loudly to one of the managers - "Why do you like wasting people's time?"