Reply to: First time Contract Issue

[Contreras]

In many instances agencies would be breaking the law to give you a signed contract without you at least proving your ID. It's even more important for agencies to do so if you're not opting out. Often they must see originals or certified copies.

What are they going to do with your details that makes you so worried about handing them over?

Pointless anecdote <snipped>

Maybe you could read my original reply to the OP in context.

If the agent doesn't have the contract in the bag then they're not going to be stressing for tick box exercises. Anyway I'm bored of this now.

[SueEllen]

Technically, all they need is a letter from your company which certifies that all representatives are entitled to work in the UK (or wherever) and that their identities have been verified by their employer.

If a client gets Accidenture in, do they ask to see ID for everyone that turns up on site?

Depends on the client.

Some clients have a rule that everyone on site has to prove their ID for security purposes and the security office just happens to have some links with HR........

[DirtyDog]

In many instances agencies would be breaking the law to give you a signed contract without you at least proving your ID. It's even more important for agencies to do so if you're not opting out. Often they must see originals or certified copies.

Technically, all they need is a letter from your company which certifies that all representatives are entitled to work in the UK (or wherever) and that their identities have been verified by their employer.

If a client gets Accidenture in, do they ask to see ID for everyone that turns up on site?

[craig1]

Yes I have ready prepared scans too (passport suitably redacted) and there's no delay when the time comes.

It's called being in control. - Let's have a signed contract and we'll take it from there.

Also it helps being able to stall for longer on the Opt-out that they are so desperate to have signed, "sure, I'll send it over with all the other stuff", until it's a such done deal that they won't risk losing.

That said, I really can't imagine an agency getting flustered about this without a contract on the table so "unnecessary conflict" is somewhat overstating it IMHO.

In many instances agencies would be breaking the law to give you a signed contract without you at least proving your ID. It's even more important for agencies to do so if you're not opting out. Often they must see originals or certified copies.

What are they going to do with your details that makes you so worried about handing them over?

Pointless anecdote time: A colleague of mine at a gig a couple of years ago had the same attitude "it's my private information". A very quick google search of him had everything on that list bar his passport number, he had his banking details on his website. His LinkedIn profile was so detailed, and public, that I could make a very convincing case of identity fraud. Yet he was complaining about having to provide proof of address to an agency...

[Wanderer]

As the others say - definitely bypass the agency and talk to the client to find out what's happening here. The agency won't like it but just ignore their bluster.

[Contreras]

And next time refrain from complying with the agency's own demands for paperwork until you have the signed contract from them.

On that part, I don't get it... I have a little pack created of scans of:

- My passport
- Certificate of Incorporation
- VAT Certification of Registration
- Bank details

When an agency asks me for them, regardless of the time in the process, I send them over by email. Takes a few seconds at best and it's a bit of the process done. Why create an unnecessary conflict in working with an agency over something that we need to do anyway? If they want to waste their own internal time processing the documents into a new account on their systems before we have a contract signed then that's their problem.

Yes I have ready prepared scans too (passport suitably redacted) and there's no delay when the time comes.

It's called being in control. - Let's have a signed contract and we'll take it from there.

Also it helps being able to stall for longer on the Opt-out that they are so desperate to have signed, "sure, I'll send it over with all the other stuff", until it's a such done deal that they won't risk losing.

That said, I really can't imagine an agency getting flustered about this without a contract on the table so "unnecessary conflict" is somewhat overstating it IMHO.

[Clare@InTouch]

I've never had to send 3 month old bank statements for verification.

Passport scan, company and VAT certs scans, yes.

Sounds like a Money Laundering verification request. We ask for certain documents that are not less than 3 months old in order to verify address - bank statement, utility bill, tax code or similar.

Some agents may use an online system or have deemed you to be low risk and therefore not require as much proof.

[Dominic Connor]

I have to say that this particular case sounds like an agency trying to pull as fast one on a newbie.

It might be the client, but I don't think so.

An agency who tries to piss on you like this is probably not one you want to do business with, so to some extent you have had a lucky escape.

As others have said, this is part of the rough and tumble of being a contractor and you need to decide whether this life suits you.

Given that you have nothing to lose and certainly no duty to be nice to the agent, you should use this as practice, bearing in mind that the agency may well have promised you to the client and will be in a sticky position with them if you don't turn up.

I'd write something like this, note the friendly businesslike tone that is also vaguely menacing...

Hi Robert,
thanks for getting back to me.

Although I was keen to work at Capita, as you know I'm a first timer and my inexperience seems to have led me to underprice myself. I had regarded myself as bound to take the contract as I had verbally agreed to do so. But since they can't even afford what we agreed, it comes as a relief that I am not stuck being paid less than the market rate for a year.

Obviously, I don't want to leave you in the lurch, so I'll drop a line to Mike Bunce at Capita to explain what has happened.

regards,
A newbie.

Even if you don't know the email of the hiring manager, LinkedIn is your friend here.

*Do* send the email, or phone. The agent will probably get a rocket from the client which will do some combination of delivering revenge and getting you more money.

If the agent has been telling you the truth (it does happen) he has nothing to fear, but if as I strongly suspect he has been trying to screw you over, then he won't want those antics reaching the client. It is the life of an agent that he can't always get the candidates to sign, that's not ideal of course, but isn't too harsh. But as this is almost certainly him trying to double his margin, then it will look bad.

As my old boss used to say "Money is the best form of revenge", a mantra that not only suits contractors, it is a good self test for whether you are cut out to be one, if that saying is inconsistent with your view of the world, you will be happier as a permie, quite possibly richer as well.

If the agent comes back to you, then you should say that you reckon the going rate is about 10% more than the highest figure mentioned in this whole story. Don't be confrontational, passive aggression is your friend here.

Don't shout, just sound a bit sad and diffident, apologise for leaving him exposed to the client and unless he makes a proper (higher) offer than the phone conversation must end thus, he will be trying to flannel you big time...


",yes... I hear what you say, but we both want what is best.., the market rate does seem a bit high, but you're worth what you can get, <repeat vacous generalities for a while... sorry but I've got a call on my landline keep in touch and if there's any roles at the market rate going, let me know".
click@ off.

[jmo21]

Plus they need the bank details to be less than three months old, so you need to keep updating them.

I've only had a couple of clients verify my ID at the start, and that was more for security than anything else.

I've never had to send 3 month old bank statements for verification.

Passport scan, company and VAT certs scans, yes.

[Sausage Surprise]

Your alternatives:

1. Stand your ground over the rate but be willing to walk if they don't budge. The agency may be just pulling a fast one by suddenly saying "client wants to pay less". I've seen it happen too many times, they may be just exploiting your inexperience as a first timer.

Guaranteed for first timers.

[tarbera]

recruiter can't seem to give me a straight answer for an update

Good advice - my own contract start seems to be going the way of the Op's, and the recruiter can't seem to give me a straight answer for an update.

Agent is pulling your chain, there is no contract now, tell him to man up and say so

[DirtyDog]

Smart way of doing it but the agents should really be checking passports in person or via a certified copy for compliance. They are running a risk taking just a photocopy. Some do, some don't so don't be surprised if they ask.

Plus they need the bank details to be less than three months old, so you need to keep updating them.

I've only had a couple of clients verify my ID at the start, and that was more for security than anything else.

[northernladuk]

On that part, I don't get it... I have a little pack created of scans of:

- My passport
- Certificate of Incorporation
- VAT Certification of Registration
- Bank details

When an agency asks me for them, regardless of the time in the process, I send them over by email. Takes a few seconds at best and it's a bit of the process done. Why create an unnecessary conflict in working with an agency over something that we need to do anyway? If they want to waste their own internal time processing the documents into a new account on their systems before we have a contract signed then that's their problem.

Smart way of doing it but the agents should really be checking passports in person or via a certified copy for compliance. They are running a risk taking just a photocopy. Some do, some don't so don't be surprised if they ask.

[craig1]

And next time refrain from complying with the agency's own demands for paperwork until you have the signed contract from them.

On that part, I don't get it... I have a little pack created of scans of:

- My passport
- Certificate of Incorporation
- VAT Certification of Registration
- Bank details

When an agency asks me for them, regardless of the time in the process, I send them over by email. Takes a few seconds at best and it's a bit of the process done. Why create an unnecessary conflict in working with an agency over something that we need to do anyway? If they want to waste their own internal time processing the documents into a new account on their systems before we have a contract signed then that's their problem.

[jmo21]

Your alternatives:

1. Stand your ground over the rate but be willing to walk if they don't budge. The agency may be just pulling a fast one by suddenly saying "client wants to pay less". I've seen it happen too many times, they may be just exploiting your inexperience as a first timer.
<snip>
4. Call the client. Even if you don't have a business card, a call to reception will get you through to the interviewer. A bit of a nuclear option this one, it'll either get you in the door quickly at a better rate if the client finds out the agency are messing about or it'll get you kicked from the contract permanently.

While you're doing that, as mentioned above, get looking for your next role. Treat this with a bit higher priority than fixing the current mess.

Yep, you know people at the clients name as you've been for interview.

You might even be able to say to the agent "I will email John Smith at client co myself, and thank them for the opportunity and explain that unfortunately I cannot amend my original quoted rate."

that might be enough to kick out any last minute agent rate tricks.