Reply to: Accountant made a mistake on my Self Assessment

[TheFaQQer]

put it this way if someone paid me to write some code for their website, and I sent them a bunch of files before uploading and said...there you go, have a read of that and if it breaks something or its buggy its your responsibility because you had a chance to have a read before uploading.

<aside>Most developers do exactly that - you do an initial unit test and then hand over for formal testing / UAT. If it's signed off and there are problems, then the client should look to the testing team rather than the developer.</aside>

You're comparing apples with oranges - how difficult is it to read the form and check that the right answer is being given? It's a checkbox, not a load of files.

[frontenddeveloper]

I've been with them since I went Ltd and I did spend some time searching, they ticked all the boxes (apart from the student loan repayment ) and I always recommend them whenever someone is looking for accountants.

i suppose I'm more peeved with the "system" then them. I think the responsibility should at least be shared if a mistake has been made. If I'm paying someone to do my self assessment, who also does my business accounts and has access to everything and I have provided them with the correct information, then I should expect some level of service and responsibility.

I suppose all I want is acknowledgement that they screwed up and an apology...without me asking for one.

[Maslins]

The way things are going it seems like most likely I will get a slap on the wrist and made to agree to some conditions and the penalty will get dropped.

But, do I forgive and forget and let them to do this years return?

What's your view on them otherwise?

If things are generally great, then IMO it'd be silly to sever that relationship and start up with someone new (who may be no better) on the basis of one mistake.

If you're unimpressed with them generally, then different matter.

[frontenddeveloper]

The way things are going it seems like most likely I will get a slap on the wrist and made to agree to some conditions and the penalty will get dropped.

But, do I forgive and forget and let them to do this years return?

[Maslins]

I'd be interested to know what the accountants here would normally do in this situation, but I don't suppose they would care to admit it to us.

Lol, mistakes do happen. Sometimes it's crystal clear who's to blame (accountant/client) sometimes it's a bit grey.

I think we've physically paid two penalties in the last 4 years on clients behalf. A couple more times we've made minor mistakes, offered to the client that we'd pay any potential penalties arising, but HMRC haven't ended up raising one (or did but then waived it), hence my last post. I'd be surprised if a penalty did end up being payable in the OP's situation, unless there have been similar errors in previous returns.

[Maslins]

Have they actually said they are going to fine you or have they just said something like "you may be fined"? Presumably you actually owe repayments on your loan, 9% of everything above the £15k threshold? What year was the SA for, how overdue is the repayment?

We've had a similar thing, no fine.

Typically for a "first offence" on this kind of thing HMRC won't levy a penalty. You will of course have to pay the student loan amount that would have been due.

If it's "forgotten" next year as well, then there may well be a penalty...but hopefully between you and your accountant you'll ensure it isn't.

I'd recommend you flag it to your accountant in a friendly way before resorting to slagging them off/"in my email of 15 January I clearly stated..." type response. Mistakes happen, hopefully they'll have a look, accept their (possibly partial) responsibility, and offer recompense keeping the relationship intact. Sending them a rude email about Ts & Cs/legal obligations etc is hardly likely to keep things friendly, and may result in them replying in kind.

[northernladuk]

put it this way if someone paid me to write some code for their website, and I sent them a bunch of files before uploading and said...there you go, have a read of that and if it breaks something or its buggy its your responsibility because you had a chance to have a read before uploading.

That is different. You are responsible for what you create in that instance. An accountant just prepares your returns for you. You sign for them accepting it is correct.

[Wanderer]

I have proof in form of an email that I gave the accountant the correct details and he/she simply missed it due to their incompetence.

Now HMRC are threatening me with a penalty fine. I know ultimately its my responsibility to make sure that the details are correct, and I did provide the correct details (they also do my accounts for my Ltd)

I would present it to the accountant along with the evidence and see what they say. If they argue it then I'd counter by saying that I didn't think they took due care in preparing the tax return and that I held them (at least partially) responsible for the mistake and maybe offer to go 50/50 on it or perhaps they can sort it out amicably with HMRC and avoid a penalty.

I'd be interested to know what the accountants here would normally do in this situation, but I don't suppose they would care to admit it to us.

[frontenddeveloper]

Ah yes.. nice graphs, that makes up for the mistakes they make preparing your accounts and exposing you to HMRC.

It doesn't make up for it, its nice and slick system, but if they cant get the accounting bit right maybe its time I found someone else (as long as they had nice graphs)

[frontenddeveloper]

but the reality is that you are responsible for the correct submission of the return.

put it this way if someone paid me to write some code for their website, and I sent them a bunch of files before uploading and said...there you go, have a read of that and if it breaks something or its buggy its your responsibility because you had a chance to have a read before uploading.

[northernladuk]

I would ditch them, but I like them for my day-to-day Ltd they are good..all online, nice graphs, bank statements auto uploaded etc. That's why I paid them to do my self assessment (all under one roof). But, lets see how this situation resolves and I may have to look for a new provider.

Ah yes.. nice graphs, that makes up for the mistakes they make preparing your accounts and exposing you to HMRC.

[frontenddeveloper]

Have you actually bothered to speak to your accountant first? Surely that would be the sensible thing to do.

I have spoke to my accountant and he didn't seem too bothered he said he will file an amendment to the return and I should pay the the amount that was due. I did that and once the money went out of my account rang up HMRC the following day to make sure everything was OK, only to be told that the amendment has not gone through because I am still being investigated.

He did assure me that the penalty can get dropped if I filled in a form, agreed to some conditions. (he also said I had human rights ).

So now I have emailed my accountant to let him know what the HMRC guy said and see what his response will be.

You need to switch accountants IMO... I suggest...

I would ditch them, but I like them for my day-to-day Ltd they are good..all online, nice graphs, bank statements auto uploaded etc. That's why I paid them to do my self assessment (all under one roof). But, lets see how this situation resolves and I may have to look for a new provider.

What year was the SA for, how overdue is the repayment?

The year was 2011-2012, not sure when they would have been due, but I have paid them now.

[Martin at NixonWilliams]

I received a letter from HMRC saying I am under investigation because the tickbox for students loan repayments was not checked and I have an outstanding students loan.

Despite the wording on the letter you will have received from HMRC, it is unlikely that a fine will be levied. If it is just a simple compliance check they can usually be dealt with quickly and easily.

If interest is payable, your accountant might offer to subsidise this for you but the reality is that you are responsible for the correct submission of the return.

[kevpuk]

You need to switch accountants IMO... I suggest...

Where can I sign up?

Seriously though, firstly you should speak to your Accountant(s) - ideally actually speak, not email/write. You will almost certainly have final responsiblity for submissions, and I would expect that is clearly noted in the T&C/T of E with your Accountants.
As for penalty, I agree that this is not really warranted on prima facie evidence; most likely - as other have said - an equitable request would be more along the lines of amount owed + interest.....that said, I guess a lot depends on the rest of the nitty-gritty

[TheFaQQer]

What does your accountant say?