Reply to: Subsistence, Meals and a short term contract?

[bingocaller88]

That's never been the case.
If you're contracting at a temporary work place i.e. away from your "normal" place of work (home usually) then you can usually claim travel and subsistance as long as you've not been (or don't have a reasonable expectation to) at that location for 24 months.

OK, thanks. I'm trying to understand how an umbrella employee differs from an office temp (working through the agency payroll) in terms of expenses.

If an office temp works in an office 30 miles from home, train expenses aren't tax deductible.
If an umbrella employee works in the same office 30 miles from home, train expenses are tax-deductible on the basis that she normally works at home?

Is this right?

Ask your umbrella and if they can't give clear and concise guidelines then find another umbrella or do some research and set up your own Ltd with a competant accountant.

Thanks; I'm employed but just looking at the options

[Grinder]

The 2 year rule only applies if you spend 60% or more of your time at the site.

I do 3 days a week on site, staying 2 nights in a b&b. The rest of the time I work from home - 2 days for the same client and 1 day administration, CPD & business networking.

I wonder how they measure the 60%?

[TykeMerc]

Has anything changed about this - like can an umbrella company employee still not claim expenses unless they have more than one temporary workplace through the same umbrella company?

thanks

That's never been the case.

If you're contracting at a temporary work place i.e. away from your "normal" place of work (home usually) then you can usually claim travel and subsistance as long as you've not been (or don't have a reasonable expectation to) at that location for 24 months.

Ask your umbrella and if they can't give clear and concise guidelines then find another umbrella or do some research and set up your own Ltd with a competant accountant.

[bingocaller88]

Has anything changed about this - like can an umbrella company employee still not claim expenses unless they have more than one temporary workplace through the same umbrella company?

thanks

[Lucifer Box]

Funnily enough SJD gave me some advice regarding dividend splits (husband and wife) which was based on HMRC's case against Artic (though our circumstances were somewhat different). I didn't agree with the advice given so I rang HMRC help line - they gave me different advice, more favourable to myself because our circumstances are different as my wife is a fee earner, although not as high as me, she still works the same hours give or take so her input is equal in effort if not revenue. The person from HMRC admitted that the whole thing is one big grey area and they don't know themselves what is going on (the staff) because they had just lost the case and were considering an appeal. It must be very difficult for people like SJD to give advice which is probably why they air on the cautious side.

err

[Bradley]

I don't really know. There's a good chance the contract might be renewed (depending on several factors - not just my performance) and there's also a small chance the agency I am employed through might put me forward for another contract (some of the people I work with have had several contracts through the same agency). How exactly does this disqualification work?

Try http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32126.htm

[oxtailsoup]

Funnily enough SJD gave me some advice regarding dividend splits (husband and wife) which was based on HMRC's case against Artic (though our circumstances were somewhat different). I didn't agree with the advice given so I rang HMRC help line - they gave me different advice, more favourable to myself because our circumstances are different as my wife is a fee earner, although not as high as me, she still works the same hours give or take so her input is equal in effort if not revenue. The person from HMRC admitted that the whole thing is one big grey area and they don't know themselves what is going on (the staff) because they had just lost the case and were considering an appeal. It must be very difficult for people like SJD to give advice which is probably why they air on the cautious side.

[The Lone Gunman]

The problem with this is that even the experts can only offer limited advice as HMRC seems to be hell bent on changing (bending) their own rules to suit themselves as they go. Even they can't keep up.

Could be fun to watch Simon and Darren duking it out over the finer points of legislation though.

[oxtailsoup]

On Shout99 there is an ask an expert section where only the experts can reply.

It might help to have one of those on here.
One where "confused of Milton Keynes" won't get an ill informed or abusive response from some of the less able of controlling themselves, or even a well intentioned but wrong answer from me.

I liked the Ltd. vs Brolly thing from Simon, but the following debate has muddied the waters somewhat.

A set of well presented Can and Can nots on a number of subjects would be useful to the newbies (and some old hands too).
2 year rule.
Mileage allowance.
Out of pocket exes.
IR35 pointers and how to avoid/use them.

That sort of thing, but experts only.

The problem with this is that even the experts can only offer limited advice as HMRC seems to be hell bent on changing (bending) their own rules to suit themselves as they go. Even they can't keep up.

[The Lone Gunman]

On Shout99 there is an ask an expert section where only the experts can reply.

It might help to have one of those on here.
One where "confused of Milton Keynes" won't get an ill informed or abusive response from some of the less able of controlling themselves, or even a well intentioned but wrong answer from me.

I liked the Ltd. vs Brolly thing from Simon, but the following debate has muddied the waters somewhat.

A set of well presented Can and Can nots on a number of subjects would be useful to the newbies (and some old hands too).
2 year rule.
Mileage allowance.
Out of pocket exes.
IR35 pointers and how to avoid/use them.

That sort of thing, but experts only.

[malvolio]

I think it would help. Going for a sit down now...

Seek and ye shall find, ask and thou shalt receive...

There's a new edition on its way and this area will be covered.

[John Galt]

Steady on, go and sit down for a bit until you feel better...

No, you're right. All we can do is keep pushing the line that expenses are not income and people that mix the two up are heading for problems. However, I wonder if the PCG could be persuaded to include a bit more on that subject in their guides...

I think it would help. Going for a sit down now...

[malvolio]

Steady on, go and sit down for a bit until you feel better...

No, you're right. All we can do is keep pushing the line that expenses are not income and people that mix the two up are heading for problems. However, I wonder if the PCG could be persuaded to include a bit more on that subject in their guides...

[John Galt]

For once Mal I agree with you! But don't you think that there is a lot of really duff information floating about with expenses and what you can and can't claim. It's ok for us old duffers who have been around for a while but it's really no wonder that the little newbies get all confused. There are some good sites (PCG being one) but there is so much contradictory information out there that I think some people must get to the stage of thinking I don't know who to believe. Oh good grief - does this mean I will have to start being all understanding with the newbies on here

[malvolio]

The maths don't matter, the question was about taking expenses as income in order to save tax. And the answer is, you can't. Is that too hard to understand?

Sorry, but I get seriously pissed off about contractors claiming every last penny of expense they can think off to save fourpence a year going to the taxman, but can't be arsed to set up their own company and save a couple of thousand. If you really want to be a glofiried agency temp, then fine, but please don't pretend you're running anything other more business-like than a tax avoidance scheme.