Originally posted by BolshieBastard
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Reply to: terminology or real problem?
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Previously on "terminology or real problem?"
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostI believe that I said exactly the opposite: that of course the client has to approve an expense, I am not questioning that. What I did question was the use of the term "line manager".
I do take your point that it's only semantics. But then so is "employer"/"client".
Even if you do get investigated for IR35, the client will call whoever is immediately above you on the organisation chart your 'line manager \ manager.'
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Originally posted by BolshieBastard View PostWhat, so you expect an additional expense doesnt need client sign off?
I think you know it has to be signed off by someone at the client. As for the agent saying 'line manager,' so what? Its only semantics at the end of the day.
I do take your point that it's only semantics. But then so is "employer"/"client".
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostAgency gives you a decent IR35-friendly contract. Then someone at agency's accounts says that something or other has to be approved by "your line manager". Do you:
shut up and carry on?
reply that you don't have one?
say "that must be me, I'm the director"?
ISTM that you either step into D&C, or annoy the crap out of the people who process your payments by consincing them that your head is up your arse, or take the piss and not get paid.
What matters more is how the "line manager" sees themselves, and you, and how they would respond to a few leading questions from HMRC.
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostAgency gives you a decent IR35-friendly contract. Then someone at agency's accounts says that something or other has to be approved by "your line manager". Do you:
shut up and carry on?
reply that you don't have one?
say "that must be me, I'm the director"?
ISTM that you either step into D&C, or annoy the crap out of the people who process your payments by consincing them that your head is up your arse, or take the piss and not get paid.Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostIt is a question of client approval for expenses incurred in travel to other sites as requested by the client. I wouldn't think there is a problem with that in principle, but I objected to the phrase "line manager". Or is it OK for a contractor to admit to having a "line manager"? I suggested "responsible person authorised by the client".
I think you know it has to be signed off by someone at the client. As for the agent saying 'line manager,' so what? Its only semantics at the end of the day.
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostSo I should have RTFM? Nah....
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostWell the business directory says a line manager is..
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostNo, indeed, I don't feel it's in any way out of order for the client to have to approve expenditure. I just had this feeling that a line manager means the manager of an employee. I'm probably wrong there.
A manager who heads a revenue-generating department and is responsible for achieving an organization's main objectives by executing functions such as policy making, target setting, decision making.
Read more: What is line manager? definition and meaning
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostHe probably has a budget to run and could quite possibly under serious travel restrictions so to get approval in perfectly reasonable. Just because you are a contractor doesn't mean you can spend their money when you want and can ride roughshod over any cost saving/regulatory process's in place. It is still professional to respect a clients method of doing business. Just because they are micro managing travel costs doesn't mean you are under D&C. I have been at a client where we had two total bans on travel, not even to a site 5 miles away without senior approval. Trying to get directory sign of for a 10 mile round trip was just unbelieveable so just did it and just claimed it through the company as part of my 'service'.
When stuff like this happens ask yourself what do the other large outsourcers ,that are clearly businesses, have to do. Accenture had to follow the same process for their travel so I didn't feel it made me look like a disguised permie.
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He probably has a budget to run and could quite possibly under serious travel restrictions so to get approval in perfectly reasonable. Just because you are a contractor doesn't mean you can spend their money when you want and can ride roughshod over any cost saving/regulatory process's in place. It is still professional to respect a clients method of doing business. Just because they are micro managing travel costs doesn't mean you are under D&C. I have been at a client where we had two total bans on travel, not even to a site 5 miles away without senior approval. Trying to get directory sign of for a 10 mile round trip was just unbelieveable so just did it and just claimed it through the company as part of my 'service'.
When stuff like this happens ask yourself what do the other large outsourcers ,that are clearly businesses, have to do. Accenture had to follow the same process for their travel so I didn't feel it made me look like a disguised permie.
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It isn't unreasonable for expenses (disbursements) to require authorisation - as long as that is the only indication of control I wouldn't have thought the terminology would make too much difference
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostWhat happens in reality - if you don't need approval for anything from anyone then it is not unreasonable to ask to have the clause removed; if you do then the clause is reasonable and you are probably not, in reality, outside IR35
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Originally posted by Ignis Fatuus View PostAgency gives you a decent IR35-friendly contract. Then someone at agency's accounts says that something or other has to be approved by "your line manager". Do you:
shut up and carry on?
reply that you don't have one?
say "that must be me, I'm the director"?
ISTM that you either step into D&C, or annoy the crap out of the people who process your payments by consincing them that your head is up your arse, or take the piss and not get paid.
Leave a comment:
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terminology or real problem?
Agency gives you a decent IR35-friendly contract. Then someone at agency's accounts says that something or other has to be approved by "your line manager". Do you:
shut up and carry on?
reply that you don't have one?
say "that must be me, I'm the director"?
ISTM that you either step into D&C, or annoy the crap out of the people who process your payments by consincing them that your head is up your arse, or take the piss and not get paid.Last edited by Ignis Fatuus; 4 March 2013, 13:38.Tags: None
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