Reply to: Dodgy Accountant and corporation Tax

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Its storys like Lockhouse's that make me frustrated when clients won't take a degree of control of their own affairs - I always feel we are her to advise, not manage - some clients don't get that!

[Lockhouse]

Not read the thread but here's my story.

My first ever accountant got closed down for fraud. This was in the late 1980's. I'd only just started contracting and was very green. I went round to my accountant's office after not being able to get in touch for a couple of months and apparently he'd been raided by the DTI (as it was then) and taken away in handcuffs. He ended up in chokey.

I got a new accountant to go through my books and it transpired that my company had been closed down and struck off at Companies House six months earlier. I was totally oblivious as my accountant had a) not been forwarding my post b) not been completing my returns c) taking all my money. You live and learn.

[BlasterBates]

I read the original post.

Firstly a cheque was received.

I received the cheque next day to my home address, and was happily surprised at the amount that it showed.

Next the accountant rings up and says it was a mistake

Shortly after, my Accountant rang me up to say that he had made an administrative error on his PC. He said that the cheque belonged to him, and that we should send it back to him straight away.

This was before the cheque was cashed in. At this point his advice should have been heeded. This is clearly not money laundering as the accountant tried to stop the cheque being cashed.

However ....

my partner and I decided to ignore what our Accountant asked of us with the cheque, as it was payable to us

So they cashed the cheque.

My advice would be pay that money back to the accountant. If someone transfers money by mistake into your account you are obliged to pay it back.

Now whether a cash rebate is due from HMRC is another matter. I wouldn´t see any problem in then getting that from the accountant once it would be clear, assuming that the accountant had received it.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

This comes down to ensuring that your accountant is ACA or ACCA qualified.

Nonsense. Certainly it helps but there are many, many well qualified chancers in all walks of life. And its specious to suggest that honesty is the sole preserve of the qualified.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

This comes down to ensuring that your accountant is ACA or ACCA qualified.

I am not sure this is correct. Darren Upton was ACCA, and there are plenty of hopeless (but qualified) heart surgeons in the world. Sometimes people are just dishonest, and sometimes bad things happen to good people.

[NimbleJackAccounting]

My two pennies worth.

This comes down to ensuring that your accountant is ACA or ACCA qualified.

Would you get a heart operation from a unqualified doctor?

Do your research as Wanderer said earlier in the post.

[trailanderror]

Thank you for your replies everyone

Still looking into matters at the moment

Will let you know what is done asap

Trailanderror

[jmo21]

They may have simply over paid their Corporation tax and VAT.

there are a number of things they "may" have done, but he hasn't told us whether he asked the accountant.

He simply didn't give the money back, supposedly because the accountant just demanded money?

[SueEllen]

so answer my other question then:

Did you ask "why have HMRC sent you (the accountant) a cheque in our old co name, and why do you expect me to pay this money to you".

They may have simply over paid their Corporation tax and VAT.

While contractoruk mainly deals with IT contractors, people from other sectors who are contractors come across these forums.

You are not telling the whole story for some reason.

I suspect you will find a more detailed post if you search on other accountancy/business/money forums and the poster can't be bothered to retype what they put. Lots of people are unaware of using copy and paste.

Generally people end up with similar answers regardless of how many forums they post on.

[jmo21]

No, we do not owe our accountant any money at all. We pay him his man hours dealing with our yearly accounts. That is one thing we have always done.

My partner has a well paid job, so has no need to avoid any payments to our accountant that are deemed necessary as a company goes.

Trailanderror

so answer my other question then:

Did you ask "why have HMRC sent you (the accountant) a cheque in our old co name, and why do you expect me to pay this money to you".

You are not telling the whole story for some reason.

[BolshieBastard]

Two sides to every story. I do notice however, the OP has been very conservative with the facts. If someone contacts you and say they made a mistake, please pay the money back, you'd ask why, what was the mistake and can I see documentary proof (well I would!).

Neither do you just decide to 'ignore' subsequent requests.

Yes, the accountant could be trying something on but neither do you 'ignore' requests for repayment.

And as for closing company down but leaving the company's bank account open with money in it, oh deary, deary me. Someone could be in for a very rude awakening.

[SueEllen]

No, we do not owe our accountant any money at all. We pay him his man hours dealing with our yearly accounts. That is one thing we have always done.

Even if you did owe the accountant money they should ask for it politely and not scream abuse at you down the phone. (BTW if the accountant has done this more than once and does it again just tell him you are going down to the local station to report him to the plod - nothing will happen but if they are crooked every bit of evidence helps.)

Also an accountant shouldn't be keeping clients' money if they don't have a client account.

Any professional - accountant, solicitor, whatever with a client account will tell you in writing that they have one when you sign up with them.

[Bagpuss]

There's more to this than meets the eye, I reckon. On the surface it seems extremely dodgy but if he was operating an Upton-style scam, then I don't think he'd have send the cheque out in error. And would he be sending emails asking for it back? Thus creating a trail of evidence all over the place?

But I can't figure out a reason why an HMRC cheque paid to the OP could possibly be due to the accountant. Unless the OP owes him fees and the repayment was mandated to the accountant and the admin error is with HMRC and the cheque has been issued to the OP in error (and not in accordance with a mandate?) The plan being that the accountant is going to return the cheque to HMRC and ask them to re-issue to the accountant.

That doesn't quite fit with the 'phone call from the accountant saying he was sending it. Ah sod it, I dunno. It's too late on a friday to play Columbo.

Upton conned me in a very similar fashion to this. He filled a null return to HMRC and told me I owed the £s that my accounts indicated. I paid HMRC, and of course there was no debt on the account, and I put the account into credit so they issued a refund to me, via a cheque in the post. Obviously I wasn't expecting a refund and he said was a mistake. He got it cancelled but then instructed them to pay him (pretending to be myco but with his account details) by BACS. HMRC do not check to see if the company name matches the bank details. Nor do they take responsiblity for paying your money to somebody else.

PM me the accountant name, they could be an associate of said accountant.

[trailanderror]

you owe him money then eh?

No, we do not owe our accountant any money at all. We pay him his man hours dealing with our yearly accounts. That is one thing we have always done.

My partner has a well paid job, so has no need to avoid any payments to our accountant that are deemed necessary as a company goes.

Trailanderror

[TestMangler]

A word of caution though.

A colleague of mine ran into issues with a bent accountant who went bust a few years ago.

His new accountant went to HMRC (not sure this was a sensible move) to get assistance clearing up some of the mess. This ended up as a full blown IR35 case which lasted 2.5 years !!

He was eventually cleared (he was on the point of retirement when this all happened) and ended up sending a **** You letter to HMRC and moving to Spain.