Reply to: Going accountant free

[Wanderer]

The only reason we use limited companies is because we can't work as freelancers in the UK if we work with agencies.

The protection of limited liability is very important too...

[SueEllen]

I take your point. This trend has been in existence for a while and is growing in significance. My curiousity in this instance lies with its logical conclusion. If the tax base erodes at an increasing pace - can you see IR35 rules remaining untouched?

There is some tinkering coming along in a few days.

And the rules are a mess.

The only reason we use limited companies is because we can't work as freelancers in the UK if we work with agencies.

[cojak]

It was rather more the case of ensuring that you deal with real people rather than those who sound like Martin Chuzzlewit.

[Precept]

It seems you haven't heard of the business model where you don't take on any permanent staff at all.

It's very 21st Century.

I take your point. This trend has been in existence for a while and is growing in significance. My curiousity in this instance lies with its logical conclusion. If the tax base erodes at an increasing pace - can you see IR35 rules remaining untouched?

[SueEllen]

There are some big issues lurking under the surface of recent disclosures about taxation and wider business practices. Was your contribution a throwaway comment or an invitation for the Contractor UK community to engage these issues.

It seems you haven't heard of the business model where you don't take on any permanent staff at all.

It's very 21st Century.

[Precept]

That has the the essence opening gambit

...and make sure they are a UK company based in the 21st century.

There are some big issues lurking under the surface of recent disclosures about taxation and wider business practices. Was your contribution a throwaway comment or an invitation for the Contractor UK community to engage these issues.

[cojak]

...and make sure they are a UK company based in the 21st century.

[Precept]

Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Let’s not get carried away by the current one-sided fashion to denigrate any activity associated with finance. Yes, there are wayward accountants in the same way as there are unscrupulous businessmen.

Many contributors to this site consider themselves businessmen and operate under Ltd company status to qualify for preferential tax treatment. Tax concessions are there to encourage the creation and development of businesses, appealing to those who have the special talent associated with business success, the men and women traditionally referred to as entrepreneurs – risk takers.

There are some however, who take advantage of these tax concessions without taking a business risk worthy of the name, who perhaps might also fail the basic tests of control, substitution and mutual obligation.

Rather than enter the minefield that is IR35 however, I would prefer wholeheartedly to encourage those entrepreneurs who see their future encompassing a successful expansion in trade. Then, when the time comes for you have to confront issues like additional staffing budgets, capital outlay plans, cash-flow projections and many other vagaries of a growing business you will appreciate the invaluable support of a knowledgeable accountant. Doing the books yourself in those circumstances would not I suggest be an appropriate option.

[cojak]

You would not give your accountant any money (other than the monthly fee). They should tell you how much to pay and your co. makes the payment direct to HMRC, your payroll, etc.

The above should act as a warning as some of the congregation on here will testify to having been badly burnt themselves.

You don't HAVE give your money to your accountant to get ripped off, you just have to give them Agent status.

Some fraudsters can then CLAIM BACK from HMRC the money that you sent to them direct under the pretext of incorrect payment.

Just be aware, 'tis all...

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

You would not give your accountant any money (other than the monthly fee). They should tell you how much to pay and your co. makes the payment direct to HMRC, your payroll, etc.

The above should act as a warning as some of the congregation on here will testify to having been badly burnt themselves.

Yep, couldn't agree more

[BA to the Stars]

Another reason

Disgraced church treasurer who stole over £500,000 ordered to pay back £1 (From Stourbridge News)
Accountant accused £1 million fraud | This is Cornwall
Accountant stole £34k from Herefordshire charity (From Ledbury Reporter)
Darren Upton, Married Accountant, Jailed For Stealing £500,000 To Lavish On Mistress Victoria Fraenzel

You would not give your accountant any money (other than the monthly fee). They should tell you how much to pay and your co. makes the payment direct to HMRC, your payroll, etc.

The above should act as a warning as some of the congregation on here will testify to having been badly burnt themselves.

[VectraMan]

Having successfully got through the CT600 PDF a couple of times now, I'm not sure why anybody bothers with any other software. Remember it's you that has to sign (well electronically anyway), so going along with whatever the software says without understanding it doesn't seem like a good idea, although I'm sure most go along with whatever their accountant says without understand it.

I just use SJD's spreadsheet for bookkeeping, and do the CT return myself. I've never done PAYE myself, but VAT is dead simple.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

One small thing to bear in mind is that a lot of accounts packages are good at keeping accounts but not at finalising them into statutory format. If they can produce a balance sheet that passes Companies House scrutiny then you are part way there, but if you ever had to produce full accounts for something, eg vetting or borrowing, then these packages can let you down.

I suppose what I am saying is, make sure you get something fit for purpose, Sage etc, normally isn't for these purposes...

[Andrew at Boox]

Going accountant free

The fact remains that it is invariably better to stick to your own area of expertise - you can earn more per hour advancing your own business than trying to be a bookkeeper.

Couldn't agree more. Remember, depending on the nature of your business, if you register for VAT and take advantage of HMRC's Flat Rate Vat scheme, the benefit from that should cover the annual cost of an accountant. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/schemes/flat-rate.htm


Andrew at Boox

[BolshieBastard]

I pay my accountant about 1200 quid a year for everything, payroll, accounts, keeping up to the minute with legislation and keeping hmrc in their box etc. In other words about 100 quid a month.

Put another way, that's a third of my usual daily rate. And, I dont have to bother fannying around with packages, making sure I've made no mistakes, missed anything obvious or submitted everything by every deadline day plus I dont have to spend my spare time doing it all.

If people want to take on the hassle of doing their own accounts (because that's what it really is) for the sake of 100 quid a month, that's up to them.

Me? I've known my accountant for 15 years and have had 3 companies done through him. Works for me every time.

Oh, and Sage is utter tulipe!