Reply to: HMRC firing off some "warning shots"

[The Spartan]

Some people are lucky in that respect but that's just the way things are I tend not to dwell on it too much, what I dislike is the fact you have all these people buying into the notion that it's OK to get more taxes off people with better paid jobs and that they should pay more.

It's not their money it's my money I earned it so what if I have a good job, it didn't fall in my lap I had to work for it and develop the necessary skills to be able to do what I do.

I am not against paying tax but I would prefer it to be at a reasonable level.

[formant]

That maybe so, but the person on 100k is paying 4 times the amount of tax the person on 25K is paying and doesn't get any better services etc.

The main point is penalising people who earn more isn't the way forward, you're technically penalising someone for working hard

I'm very much against penalising higher earners with higher tax rates, but with an equal tax rate they're not penalised.

Very few people are 100% self made. Money breeds money and your family circumstances can give you quite a head start - if not directly with cash (buying you a better a education or easing you into the job market through contacts or the family business) then probably through drilling ambition and business sense into you from a young age. It's not all 'hard work'. I probably work a lot less hard than most lower earners, but make a hell of a lot more. I'm not going to pretend I got to where I am purely by working for it. Some of it was luck, some of it was privilege - the rest, yeah, that was work. But not that hard.

And even if you did come from 'nothing' - well that just means your tax funded state education took you further than it did the next person. So while you don't as such get 'better service', you'll have still profited from the same basic provisions as everyone else. And you may want keep paying in to sustain those basic provisions - which wouldn't work out too well if we all only paid 5k/yr.

Successful people have a tendency to get rather vain and conveniently forget to give credit where it's due. It's never all you and 'hard work' alone.

[prozak]

I'm not here to convince anybody to join, and have never solicited anybody to do so. And I wasn't aware I needed your permission to post on a public discussion board.

So your presence here with a username, which I assume relates to your scheme is just to have discussions about various contractor related subjects? Funny, I don't see you much in threads that are not related to offshore schemes.

I never said nor implied you did need my permission.

Are you having trouble with your comprehension skills?

That could explain why you never give a straight answer.

[Vallah]

you're doing a great job of convincing people to join your scheme. Being condescending to anyone who asks you questions.

Well done.

Why are you here again?

I'm not here to convince anybody to join, and have never solicited anybody to do so. And I wasn't aware I needed your permission to post on a public discussion board.

[prozak]

This discussion is about enquiries into the old EBT schemes, and the post I replied to concerned EBTs. Do try to keep track of the threads you're trolling.

you're doing a great job of convincing people to join your scheme. Being condescending to anyone who asks you questions.

Well done.

Why are you here again?

[Vallah]

So stop using it in your arguments that support the new schemes, thanks.

This discussion is about enquiries into the old EBT schemes, and the post I replied to concerned EBTs. Do try to keep track of the threads you're trolling.

[prozak]

I'm well aware of that, thanks.

So stop using it in your arguments that support the new schemes, thanks.

Do you tell your clients your current structure is untested since the legislation change?

[Vallah]

So it WAS. EBT's don't work at present.

I'm well aware of that, thanks.

[malvolio]

Except that isn't the case at all, as the recent Rangers judgement shows. A loan is legally a loan, and not income.

And of course you ensure your clients declare it as such on their annual SA...

[The Spartan]

That maybe so, but the person on 100k is paying 4 times the amount of tax the person on 25K is paying and doesn't get any better services etc.

The main point is penalising people who earn more isn't the way forward, you're technically penalising someone for working hard

[RasputinDude]

What's wrong with everyone paying the same proportion?

[prozak]

Just in case no one else has said this further down, this isn't a good way to work for those on the lower end of the scale. A larger proportion of their income will go in tax. So if you earn 25K (UK average I believe) then 20% tax on that is 5K, a large chunk out of your take home, leaving you with 20K to live off. If you earn £100K then after that 20% you still have 80K to live off. Apologies if I'm not making the point clearly though.

Then the person who is earning 25k should work harder.

i don't think anyone struggled with the math or implications.

It is more about whether you are a left wing, big government, money wasting, anti-enterprise, commie bastard or a right thinking rationale human being.

[NickNick]

Quite! In Hong Kong (I think) the higher the earnings, the lower the tax rate so you may pay say 30% for the first 100k but then 25% for the next 100k and so on - makes much more sense than our system of penalising people for success

Just in case no one else has said this further down, this isn't a good way to work for those on the lower end of the scale. A larger proportion of their income will go in tax. So if you earn 25K (UK average I believe) then 20% tax on that is 5K, a large chunk out of your take home, leaving you with 20K to live off. If you earn £100K then after that 20% you still have 80K to live off. Apologies if I'm not making the point clearly though.

[prozak]

Except that isn't the case at all, as the recent Rangers judgement shows. A loan is legally a loan, and not income.

So it WAS. EBT's don't work at present.

[Vallah]

OK, so let's try a simple question.

HMRC accept that most EBT shchemes are entirely lawful and there is no basis for closing them down since they do the job they are meant to do. However, HMRC are asking the users of such scehemes to explain exactly how and when the loans are to be repaid and what their intentions are to repay it at that time. If they can't get a clear and unambiguous answer, they will then treat is as a BIK and tax it on that basis.

Except that isn't the case at all, as the recent Rangers judgement shows. A loan is legally a loan, and not income.