Reply to: Public Sector forcing PAYE and all that - Consultancies a way around this?

[cojak]

6A.3 The CONTRACTOR may, at any time during the term of this contract, request the Consultant to provide information .

6A.4 A request under Clause 6A.3 above may specify the information which the Consultant must provide and the period within which that information must be provided.

6A.5 The Consultant acknowledges that all information it provides pursuant to Clauses 6A.3 and 6A.4 above will be provided to the AUTHORITY by the CONTRACTOR.

6A.6. The CONTRACTOR may terminate this contract, at the request the AUTHORITY, if-

...6A.6.1 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 3 above-

......6A.6.1.1 the Consultant fails to provide information in response to the request within a reasonable time, or

......6A.6.1.2 in the opinion of the AUTHORITY, the Consultant provides information which is inadequate to demonstrate either how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it;

...6A.6.2 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 4 above, the Consultant fails to provide the specified information within the specified period, or

...6A.6.3 it receives information which demonstrates that, at any time when Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 apply to the Consultant, the Consultant is not complying with those Clauses.


What happens if I don't send them anything?

You've answered your own question.

[bracken]

6A Tax Assurance
6A.1 Where the Consultant is liable to be taxed in the UK in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 and all other statutes and regulations relating to income tax in respect of that consideration.

6A.2 Where the Consultant is liable to National Insurance Contributions (NICs) in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 and all other statutes and regulations relating to NICs in respect of that consideration.

6A.3 The CONTRACTOR may, at any time during the term of this contract, request the Consultant to provide information which demonstrates how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it.

6A.4 A request under Clause 6A.3 above may specify the information which the Consultant must provide and the period within which that information must be provided.

6A.5 The Consultant acknowledges that all information it provides pursuant to Clauses 6A.3 and 6A.4 above will be provided to the AUTHORITY by the CONTRACTOR.

6A.6. The CONTRACTOR may terminate this contract, at the request of the AUTHORITY, if-

...6A.6.1 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 3 above-

......6A.6.1.1 the Consultant fails to provide information in response to the request within a reasonable time, or

......6A.6.1.2 in the opinion of the AUTHORITY, the Consultant provides information which is inadequate to demonstrate either how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it;

...6A.6.2 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 4 above, the Consultant fails to provide the specified information within the specified period, or

...6A.6.3 it receives information which demonstrates that, at any time when Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 apply to the Consultant, the Consultant is not complying with those Clauses.

6A.7 The Consultant acknowledges that the AUTHORITY may supply any information which it receives under Clause 6A.3 and 6A.4 to the Commissioners of Her Majesty‟s Revenue and Customs for the purpose of the collection and management of revenue for which they are responsible.



So in effect, they can only give Hector, what I send to them.

What happens if I don't send them anything?

Is this from a capita contract?

[speling bee]

6A Tax Assurance
6A.1 Where the Consultant is liable to be taxed in the UK in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 and all other statutes and regulations relating to income tax in respect of that consideration.

6A.2 Where the Consultant is liable to National Insurance Contributions (NICs) in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 and all other statutes and regulations relating to NICs in respect of that consideration.

6A.3 The CONTRACTOR may, at any time during the term of this contract, request the Consultant to provide information which demonstrates how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it.

6A.4 A request under Clause 6A.3 above may specify the information which the Consultant must provide and the period within which that information must be provided.

6A.5 The Consultant acknowledges that all information it provides pursuant to Clauses 6A.3 and 6A.4 above will be provided to the AUTHORITY by the CONTRACTOR.

6A.6. The CONTRACTOR may terminate this contract, at the request of the AUTHORITY, if-

...6A.6.1 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 3 above-

......6A.6.1.1 the Consultant fails to provide information in response to the request within a reasonable time, or

......6A.6.1.2 in the opinion of the AUTHORITY, the Consultant provides information which is inadequate to demonstrate either how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it;

...6A.6.2 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 4 above, the Consultant fails to provide the specified information within the specified period, or

...6A.6.3 it receives information which demonstrates that, at any time when Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 apply to the Consultant, the Consultant is not complying with those Clauses.

6A.7 The Consultant acknowledges that the AUTHORITY may supply any information which it receives under Clause 6A.3 and 6A.4 to the Commissioners of Her Majesty‟s Revenue and Customs for the purpose of the collection and management of revenue for which they are responsible.



So in effect, they can only give Hector, what I send to them.

What happens if I don't send them anything?

WTF? Clauses from your revised contract? Assuming you are well out of this as low risk in Business Entity Tests.

Starting early conversation about renewal to take me beyond 6 months so we will see what we will see.

[Old Hack]

6A Tax Assurance
6A.1 Where the Consultant is liable to be taxed in the UK in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 and all other statutes and regulations relating to income tax in respect of that consideration.

6A.2 Where the Consultant is liable to National Insurance Contributions (NICs) in respect of consideration received under this contract, it shall at all times comply with the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 and all other statutes and regulations relating to NICs in respect of that consideration.

6A.3 The CONTRACTOR may, at any time during the term of this contract, request the Consultant to provide information which demonstrates how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it.

6A.4 A request under Clause 6A.3 above may specify the information which the Consultant must provide and the period within which that information must be provided.

6A.5 The Consultant acknowledges that all information it provides pursuant to Clauses 6A.3 and 6A.4 above will be provided to the AUTHORITY by the CONTRACTOR.

6A.6. The CONTRACTOR may terminate this contract, at the request of the AUTHORITY, if-

...6A.6.1 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 3 above-

......6A.6.1.1 the Consultant fails to provide information in response to the request within a reasonable time, or

......6A.6.1.2 in the opinion of the AUTHORITY, the Consultant provides information which is inadequate to demonstrate either how the Consultant complies with Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 above or why those Clauses do not apply to it;

...6A.6.2 in the case of a request mentioned in Clause 4 above, the Consultant fails to provide the specified information within the specified period, or

...6A.6.3 it receives information which demonstrates that, at any time when Clauses 6A.1 and 6A.2 apply to the Consultant, the Consultant is not complying with those Clauses.

6A.7 The Consultant acknowledges that the AUTHORITY may supply any information which it receives under Clause 6A.3 and 6A.4 to the Commissioners of Her Majesty‟s Revenue and Customs for the purpose of the collection and management of revenue for which they are responsible.



So in effect, they can only give Hector, what I send to them.

What happens if I don't send them anything?

[speling bee]

I made a decision today. Fu** it im off. The war chest is big enough so im outta working for the governmnet until this gets clearer. I dont want to find mid contract my earnings are 20% down on the year coz of interference from cabinet and hector. Call it risk management, identify the risk, decide on a plan of action to eliminate it.

Ive got other things to do with my time that might get me in a position where i dont have to worry about whether im in or out of ir35 as i wont be working for one company at their premises.

The cabinet office guidance is a bit stupid really, they dept I work for had 3-4 months work lined up for me, but ill be explaning why im not interested and to make sure the minister for BIS gets to hear wind of it. Our chief exec has to approve all contract renewals personally so will be interesting to see what they think. What i do know is they are now at risk of not completing some of their projects which are legal requirements, as Im not the only one going!

I am happy to hang around until we see what materialises in practice. But I am on a 6 month contract expecting a 3 month extension to complete a 9 month project. They won't find anyone else with the niche knowledge to complete.

[Sausage Surprise]

I made a decision today. Fu** it im off. The war chest is big enough so im outta working for the governmnet until this gets clearer. I dont want to find mid contract my earnings are 20% down on the year coz of interference from cabinet and hector. Call it risk management, identify the risk, decide on a plan of action to eliminate it.

Ive got other things to do with my time that might get me in a position where i dont have to worry about whether im in or out of ir35 as i wont be working for one company at their premises.

The cabinet office guidance is a bit stupid really, they dept I work for had 3-4 months work lined up for me, but ill be explaning why im not interested and to make sure the minister for BIS gets to hear wind of it. Our chief exec has to approve all contract renewals personally so will be interesting to see what they think. What i do know is they are now at risk of not completing some of their projects which are legal requirements, as Im not the only one going!

[IR35FanClub]

I made a decision today. Fu** it im off. The war chest is big enough so im outta working for the governmnet until this gets clearer. I dont want to find mid contract my earnings are 20% down on the year coz of interference from cabinet and hector. Call it risk management, identify the risk, decide on a plan of action to eliminate it.

Ive got other things to do with my time that might get me in a position where i dont have to worry about whether im in or out of ir35 as i wont be working for one company at their premises.

The cabinet office guidance is a bit stupid really, they dept I work for had 3-4 months work lined up for me, but ill be explaning why im not interested and to make sure the minister for BIS gets to hear wind of it. Our chief exec has to approve all contract renewals personally so will be interesting to see what they think. What i do know is they are now at risk of not completing some of their projects which are legal requirements, as Im not the only one going!

[IR35 Avoider]

I presume the way the rules will be enforced is that the government-consultancy contract will require that all persons supplied be paid via payroll.

(Mods may delete this post if they think I'm giving anyone ideas. )


Being a contractor in the public sector will mean taking fixed term employment contracts with a consultancy.

[speling bee]

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.

The Cabinet Office document includes trusts. However I am not clear how the financial sanctions for non-compliance can be applied to trusts. I am not sure how the policy can be applied to FTs at all.

It may be that they will seek to change the Ts & Cs in the procurement catalogues for contracts with agencies. This may take time.

[SueEllen]

ie, the NHS wants a project done, they don't have the internal resources so they look to get some contractors in (potentially small one man LTDs) but no one will do it because of the regulations so the NHS has no choice but to go to one of the big consultancies and hire them to do the job.....

Larger consultancies that win contracts from large clients don't have all the staff they need with the skills to do the work so in turn they hire contractors.....

It's a complete farce.

[Rabotnik]

Yeah I was counting on them not being clued up so they wouldn't interfere with my existing contract, but that's up in October, so I thought when he requested the extension they would start implementing the new rules. Regardless, as I mentioned in the other government contract thread, if they suddenly want to enforce this I will just terminate the contract.

[IR35FanClub]

Surely he would know about it now though, especially if he has requested approval for an extension to my contract? HR/Accounts would have said "yes, but you have to enforce these new rules now".

nope they won't know. you have to remember the typical HR person or client co doesnt stay bang up date with treasury guidance or upper gov dictat. it can take a while for policy to embed.

im working at a gov agency that is affected, but they still dont really know what they should be doing.

your original question would working through a consultancy make a difference. i had started thinking that, but the reality is IR35 is apllied to the individual. The consultancy would just be another intemediary. So no change to you from HMRCs point of view but you might be able to hide from the end agency.

I think the better solution is to start your own consultancy with at least 5 people invoicing. but that migjt be more trouble than its worth.

[Rabotnik]

Or, it could be that your manager simply hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors.

It could also be that he doesn't care because it doesn't reshape his tax liability.

Don't think one manager not knowing equals "It doesn't apply to trusts".

Surely he would know about it now though, especially if he has requested approval for an extension to my contract? HR/Accounts would have said "yes, but you have to enforce these new rules now".

[TestMangler]

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.

Or, it could be that your manager simply hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors.

It could also be that he doesn't care because it doesn't reshape his tax liability.

Don't think one manager not knowing equals "It doesn't apply to trusts".

[Rabotnik]

One of the posters pointed out that Trusts are not the same as govt public bodies so was unsure what the effect of this legislation on NHS roles was. I haven't followed the discussion to be fair but could be worth looking in to.

I'm currently at a Trust and just got offered another extension. My manager hasn't heard anything about these changes to engaging PSC contractors, so it seems that trusts are excluded.