Reply to: P11D - Does it need to be completed?

[Clare@InTouch]

@css_jay99, if you were my client, and all the boxes on your P11D had nil values in them, I would complete your P35 showing 'No P11D is due'.

Same here.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

No, you have to do a P11D; not doing so may prompt someone to have a closer look. However, it does not have to contain any information; you can answer £0.00 throughout if that is actually the truth and you haven't listed expenses on your SAR

@css_jay99, if you were my client, and all the boxes on your P11D had nil values in them, I would complete your P35 showing 'No P11D is due'.

[malvolio]

Looks like I am getting more confused after reading hmrc booklet 480 + p11d guide) .

As v5srv pointed out, the hmrc guide (booklet 480) implies that if the approved Mileage allowance is paid to employee then there is no need to show it on the P11D.
Surely on that note I should not have to fill out the P11D if that is my only expense?

css_jay99

No, you have to do a P11D; not doing so may prompt someone to have a closer look. However, it does not have to contain any information; you can answer £0.00 throughout if that is actually the truth and you haven't listed expenses on your SAR

[css_jay99]

Looks like I am getting more confused after reading hmrc booklet 480 + p11d guide) .

As v5srv pointed out, the hmrc guide (booklet 480) implies that if the approved Mileage allowance is paid to employee then there is no need to show it on the P11D.
Surely on that note I should not have to fill out the P11D if that is my only expense?

css_jay99

[Contreras]

I bought myself a laptop, PC and two monitors for my limited and claimed back VAT on them, do these have to be included in the P11D ?

Yes if you bought them for yourself. No if you bought them for the company.

[sbakoola]

I bought myself a laptop, PC and two monitors for my limited and claimed back VAT on them, do these have to be included in the P11D ?

[v5srv]

And contrary to some of the advice above re: needing to report mileage expenses received (eg 45p for first 10,000 and 25p for remainder) the HMRC guidance appears to confirm that there are no reporting requirements for such payments.

Link here HM Revenue & Customs: Mileage expenses for business travel in employees? own vehicles

Basically...

Definitions or restrictions - MAPs

Mileage Allowance Payments (MAPs) are payments you make to an employee for expenses related to their use of their own vehicle for business travel.

MAPs do not include:

Payments that aren't made to an employee.
Payments that aren't related to expenses of business travel in the employee's own vehicle.
Benefits provided in connection with the employee's business use of their private vehicle, such as fuel, insurance and vehicle maintenance. (Note that these are chargeable in full, with no reduction for the business proportion of the vehicle's use.)

Only two types of journey count as business travel:

journeys that form part of an employee's employment duties (such as journeys between clients' premises by a salesperson)
journeys that relate to an employee's attendance at a temporary workplace

If the MAPs you pay are below the approved amount for the tax year:

you have no reporting requirements
you have no tax to pay to HMRC
your employee will be able to get tax relief (called Mileage Allowance Relief, or MAR) on the unused balance of the approved amount
you can make separate optional reports to HMRC of any such unused balances under a scheme called the Mileage Allowance Relief Optional Reporting Scheme (MARORS) - contact your HMRC office if you want to enter the MARORS scheme

[v5srv]

Besides milegae and items like hotel bills and subsistence payments what other expense payments need to be declared by MyCo on the P11D it creates for me (it's employee). Bit of an open ended question so for example....

If I (as the employee) purchased some items (let's say for example the items could have been printer paper or even as far as paying for PII) on behalf of the business which I (still the employee) claim back as expenses from MyCo - do those items also get included on the P11D?

[Waldorf]

OK. I might be dull but, OK, if you claim the 45p mileage thing then you have to do P11D even though BIK is nill?

Yes, if you pay mileage at 45p or 25p then nothing is shown on the p11d

[psychocandy]

OK. I might be dull but, OK, if you claim the 45p mileage thing then you have to do P11D even though BIK is nill?

[CheeseSlice]

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. It goes on the P11D, and then on your personal tax return the item is entered in two parts of the Employment pages so the net effect means you pay no tax on the expense reimbursement.

I'm not entirely convinced by this but I have been offered similar advice before so would glad to be corrected!

Quote from: HM Revenue & Customs: Travel - general



In other words (my interpretation), it doesn't matter whether the train ticket is paid using the company credit card, paid directly by the end client, or paid out-of-pocket and then reimbursed - in every case it must be declared on the P11D.

Although it's a quite pointless exercise as you say.

I'm with Conteras on this. It seems this is an area that different accountants would disagree. My accountant has always said to put even those expenses paid for on the company credit card on the P11D.

[Contreras]

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. As no reimbursement occurs to the Director, and because its an allowable business expense, no P11D implications.

I'm not entirely convinced by this but I have been offered similar advice before so would glad to be corrected!

Quote from: HM Revenue & Customs: Travel - general

Business travel: you provide, pay for or reimburse

Definitions or restrictions

You cover the costs of an employee's business travel costs in one of the following ways:

• by directly providing the transport
• by paying a supplier through which your employee has arranged transport
• by reimbursing no more than the necessary costs of business travel

In other words (my interpretation), it doesn't matter whether the train ticket is paid using the company credit card, paid directly by the end client, or paid out-of-pocket and then reimbursed - in every case it must be declared on the P11D.

Although it's a quite pointless exercise as you say.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

I seriously hope the P11D process gets reformed soon. Its great (not!) that most P11D's that get filed give rise to no tax liability, so really its a form-filling exercise.

@css_jay99 - The P9D is for employees who earn less than £8,500. Directors, and those who earn more than £8,500 per year complete the P11D.

The P11D talks about "expenses reimbursed to the director/employee". So if the director takes the train to a business meeting (away from the permanent place of work, thus an allowable business travel expense), pays for it out of their own pocket and claims it back from the company, it has to go on the P11D but as it's “wholly and exclusively” for business then there is no BIK payable - correct?

Correct. It goes on the P11D, and then on your personal tax return the item is entered in two parts of the Employment pages so the net effect means you pay no tax on the expense reimbursement.

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

Correct. As no reimbursement occurs to the Director, and because its an allowable business expense, no P11D implications.

[Wanderer]

Some good answers there - thanks guys.

The P11D talks about "expenses reimbursed to the director/employee". So if the director takes the train to a business meeting (away from the permanent place of work, thus an allowable business travel expense), pays for it out of their own pocket and claims it back from the company, it has to go on the P11D but as it's “wholly and exclusively” for business then there is no BIK payable - correct?

But what if the director pays for the train ticket out of the company directly using the company credit card? That means it doesn't have to be declared on the director's P11D, is that right?

[css_jay99]

Thanks guys, this is now as clear as mud!

Except I have not filled any since i incorporated in 2005

I better get this one in on time.