Reply to: No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[administrator]

This thread is continued here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...58-fa2008.html

[smalldog]

I see. So that means you can't tell from the online portal which years HMRC are alleging have an enquiry. Therefore if they opened an enquiry but the letter got lost I wouldn't know.

If there are enquiries open and they have issued closure notices the tax years will show monies owing for those tax years. If you have enquiries open but no closure notices then the portal will not show you this.

[the gallows]

Online portal

I've 3 years with enquiries open, but only one of them (09/10) shows as anything owed online (suspended on appeal). The others are 'in scope' for me I'm sure, but just not showing as such online. The 09/10 year I was specifically sent a letter/bill for - the other two years were just the enquiry letter at the time and, many years later, nothing else since. (This is all for EBT though, if that matters in this respect)

I see. So that means you can't tell from the online portal which years HMRC are alleging have an enquiry. Therefore if they opened an enquiry but the letter got lost I wouldn't know.

[Ooops]

Discovery enquiry and closure.

Discovery is when they are late. (Nothing to do with late filing)

Sorry I know you have posted loads on this!

If a Discovery is opened do they still need to send an formal "opening enquiry" letter before they can send a closure notice?

So I read this (from DR) but not sure if it's different if they open a discovery.

"For each year you were in the scheme, HMRC should have sent
you:
1) a letter opening an enquiry
2) a Closure Notice (CN)

CNs are only valid if they apply to a year you were actually in the scheme and HMRC opened an enquiry for that year.

Likewise for APNs."

[PeterF]

I've 3 years with enquiries open, but only one of them (09/10) shows as anything owed online (suspended on appeal). The others are 'in scope' for me I'm sure, but just not showing as such online. The 09/10 year I was specifically sent a letter/bill for - the other two years were just the enquiry letter at the time and, many years later, nothing else since. (This is all for EBT though, if that matters in this respect)

[the gallows]

Online portal

No, there isnt any detail on when notices were sent, you can just see the tax years and amounts.

When I look in the portal I can see each tax year. But there is no indication that I have any tax years open? However I have got an enquiry for two of the years. Those years look like all the other years except the numbers are slightly different.

A bit frustrating as I would like to know if the other 2 years have enquiries but I don't want to ask HMRC directly. Any ideas?

[BrilloPad]

I heard from Ruth at tiger aspect. No broadcast date for their documentary yet.

[TAF4]

<snip>Class 4 NIC included in the various notices is a tricky one. Class 4 relates to profits from self employment. key words there "profits" and "self employment".

the underlying assumption from HMRC appears to be that the loans constitute profit from a self employed activity. Really?

<snip>

Confused a bit by this. Loans?
S58 applies to Family Trust benefits. Does this Class 4 distinction described apply to the S58 retro victims?

[smalldog]

Is this part on the portal in regards to the notices and when they were posted to us?

NB: to get to the information on your tax years and debts:

"Your HMRC Services"
"Services you can use -> Activate or access online services"
"Self Assesment" -> Access Service
"View Account"
"Tax Years"

Then select whichever horrible year you like

No, there isnt any detail on when notices were sent, you can just see the tax years and amounts.

[webberg]

Catching up a bit here as the day job is becoming more important now that I'm self employed.

Class 4 NIC included in the various notices is a tricky one. Class 4 relates to profits from self employment. key words there "profits" and "self employment".

the underlying assumption from HMRC appears to be that the loans constitute profit from a self employed activity. Really?

If they think you're self employed then you can claim expenditure. The gross income is not subject to NI.

If the core argument is that the loan is disguised employment income, there should be no Class 4 NIC.

HMRC can't have their cake and eat it on this one.

Challenge the assumption and use it as grounds for a representation on the APN. Wait until about a week before it's due and send a letter.

(Happy to draft something if required - caveat though - I would like to see some data in exchange - no fee).

If you're contacting HMRC and asking then to prove that they have issued notices, do it in a letter that is sent registered post and give them a deadline to respond by - normally 30 days.

Discovery is a tricky subject. A lot will turn on what HMRC was told and how. I'll have a think about doing a simplified note on this 9as I'm doing something similar for a fee paying client). Do NOT assume that putting the DOTAS SRN on your return protects you from discovery. It may do but it may not. The question is referred to in a couple of recent cases still going through the system but no proper answer yet.

[stuffed]

Found it, but not the bit where it says when the notices were supposedly sent?

Is this part on the portal in regards to the notices and when they were posted to us?

NB: to get to the information on your tax years and debts:

"Your HMRC Services"
"Services you can use -> Activate or access online services"
"Self Assesment" -> Access Service
"View Account"
"Tax Years"

Then select whichever horrible year you like

[stuffed]

Where on the portal??

just register for HMRC online, you can then look at all your tax years and amounts suspended pending appeal.

I log onto my portal and I remember it used to be there. But now I don't see anything. What section is it all under - the wonderful debt and details about when you received the noticves from HMRC? Step by step guide would be great.

PS: I presume I am in the right portal.

Your account | The Online Government Gateway account that you use to access HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) Online Services has the following contact details:

Then lists your full name and Email address???

[patbikeruk]

Getting a copy of all letters from HMRC

Hi Guys

What is the best way to get a copy of all of the correspondence HMRC has sent you in relation to the years they have queries on?

Can you do it over the phone, email or do you have to write?

Can somebody please let me know the best way.

Thanks

Patbikeruk

[BrilloPad]

thanks Brillo, yep - or maybe a section on ntrt website worth having? - hard to filter the noise.

ntrt website! in the member section! great idea!

[slogger]

As per DR's post a while ago you should email db and TQ.

This thread is getting ridiculously long. It needs a new thread - with most salient points(like contacting MP, getting CTD, potted history) in the first post.

thanks Brillo, yep - or maybe a section on ntrt website worth having? - hard to filter the noise.