Reply to: IR35 - do you pay for it and what level of cover

[centurian]

I couldn't possibly comment. But look at the make up of the IR35 Forum and count how many of them have no financial interest in preserving IR35.

I make it just one...

WHS - turkeys don't vote for Christmas

[malvolio]

I'm starting to think HMR&C invented IR35 so they could get their hands on all the corporation tax, PAYE, VAT, Income tax and national insurance money all these contract review and insurance services produce.

And people accuse HMR&C of being inefficient.

I couldn't possibly comment. But look at the make up of the IR35 Forum and count how many of them have no financial interest in preserving IR35.

I make it just one...

[Mister Clark]

I'm starting to think HMR&C invented IR35 so they could get their hands on all the corporation tax, PAYE, VAT, Income tax and national insurance money all these contract review and insurance services produce.

And people accuse HMR&C of being inefficient.

[psychocandy]

Did you get your contract reviewed before you started the contract? They accept reviews done by certain providers [ B&C as an example]. Tell them who it was with.

It was reviewed by accountant before I started (although he turned out to be useless!). Also, since then I've had it reviewed by QDOS (and also done their IR35 questionaire)

[contractoralan]

Hmmm. Abbey Tax want £195+VAT to review your contract to see if they'll cover you.

QDOS offer this for free if you've already got one of their products (e.g. PI). Seems a bit excessive £195. I dont think so.

Did you get your contract reviewed before you started the contract? They accept reviews done by certain providers [ B&C as an example]. Tell them who it was with.

[psychocandy]

If you think that there is no possibility of you failing an IR35 enquiry and having to pay the taxes/penalties then don't take out insurance against it. If you think that there is a possibility (however slim) then you have to make your own call as to whether you take out insurance or whether you take the risk on yourself.

I personally don't see that my house burning down is more likely than me having to pay back taxes/penalties because of IR35 - but that's my view of the situation. You have to work it out for yourself.

The AbbeyTax policy (survive35) is around £300 to £400 a year I think. You have to have PCGPlus already in order to take it out and you have to pay AbbeyTax to review your contracts and you have to fill in their working practices questioniarre.

Hmmm. Abbey Tax want £195+VAT to review your contract to see if they'll cover you.

QDOS offer this for free if you've already got one of their products (e.g. PI). Seems a bit excessive £195. I dont think so.

[psychocandy]

I really love it when people don't listen.

More than £220 a year, just for insurance. That you don't need and will never claim against. Why is that so hard to understand?

You wopn't get charged penalties if you have assessed your IR35 position, even if you got it wrong. AFAIK nobody has yet been charged the back taxes due under a lost IR35 case - but then there have only been half a dozen of them in the last 11 years. Of course, lots of dummies have accepted Hector's view without challenging it and paid up, but that's not covered anyway.

Oh and by the way, the cover you get from PCG is though Abbey. And you can then get a signficant discount on survive35 if you really, really have to have it. Which you don't.

Yes, this is the way I see it too. Same for Section660.

[psychocandy]

If you think that there is no possibility of you failing an IR35 enquiry and having to pay the taxes/penalties then don't take out insurance against it. If you think that there is a possibility (however slim) then you have to make your own call as to whether you take out insurance or whether you take the risk on yourself.

I personally don't see that my house burning down is more likely than me having to pay back taxes/penalties because of IR35 - but that's my view of the situation. You have to work it out for yourself.

The AbbeyTax policy (survive35) is around £300 to £400 a year I think. You have to have PCGPlus already in order to take it out and you have to pay AbbeyTax to review your contracts and you have to fill in their working practices questioniarre.

No, IMHO, getting caught or at least investigated for IR35 is something that MIGHT happen.

Whether its worth paying extra for the taxes/penalties is debatable. Like someone said, hardly anyone has been caught.

Same for Section660. Not sure if anyone is ever going to caught for this under current legislation.

[malvolio]

This is true, but your house burning down is a possibility....

Dont want to pay for insuring against something thats not ever going to happen.

Will have a look at abbeytax. Any idea how much they charge for their survive35 policy?

I really love it when people don't listen.

More than £220 a year, just for insurance. That you don't need and will never claim against. Why is that so hard to understand?

You wopn't get charged penalties if you have assessed your IR35 position, even if you got it wrong. AFAIK nobody has yet been charged the back taxes due under a lost IR35 case - but then there have only been half a dozen of them in the last 11 years. Of course, lots of dummies have accepted Hector's view without challenging it and paid up, but that's not covered anyway.

Oh and by the way, the cover you get from PCG is though Abbey. And you can then get a signficant discount on survive35 if you really, really have to have it. Which you don't.

[Hex]

This is true, but your house burning down is a possibility....

Dont want to pay for insuring against something thats not ever going to happen.

Will have a look at abbeytax. Any idea how much they charge for their survive35 policy?

If you think that there is no possibility of you failing an IR35 enquiry and having to pay the taxes/penalties then don't take out insurance against it. If you think that there is a possibility (however slim) then you have to make your own call as to whether you take out insurance or whether you take the risk on yourself.

I personally don't see that my house burning down is more likely than me having to pay back taxes/penalties because of IR35 - but that's my view of the situation. You have to work it out for yourself.

The AbbeyTax policy (survive35) is around £300 to £400 a year I think. You have to have PCGPlus already in order to take it out and you have to pay AbbeyTax to review your contracts and you have to fill in their working practices questioniarre.

[psychocandy]

This is true, but your house burning down is a possibility....

Dont want to pay for insuring against something thats not ever going to happen.

Will have a look at abbeytax. Any idea how much they charge for their survive35 policy?

[Hex]

The point of insurance is that you insure against something that is unlikely to happen, but if it does happen then the financial consequences would be dire.

Some people seem to be suggesting that because something is unlikely to happen you shouldn't insure against it, that is just wrong - that is exactly the event you should insure against - like insuring against your house burning down.

Whether you take out IR35 insurance to just cover the legal fees or whether you pay extra to also cover tax and penalties if you lost and IR35 battle is up to you. It depends on your take on the risk and your willingness to accept that risk yourself. If you don't want to accept it yourself then you can insure against it.

You can insure against the tax and penalties with QDOS if you already use them for your legal insurance. If you use PCG for legal insurance then you can take out an extra AbbeyTax product (AbbeyTax provide the PCG legal insurance) to also cover tax and penalties if you want to.

[psychocandy]

Interesting to see someone on the poll pays for the full works. Would be interested to hear their comments on this thread.

[psychocandy]

S660 is a no brainer. Spoke to my accountant and their tax expert. It all comes down to how your company is organised \ set up. You'd have to be very unlucky to get caught by any S660 type investigation even if divis are paid into the same bank account.

Yeh. Exactly. My understanding was that since the Arctic case, HMRC are stuffed on that one for the time being. To be honest, I'm just set up with me and the wife and thats it.

[psychocandy]

There have been very few successful IR35 wins by HMRC; I doubt they've got into double figures yet. The ones who have lost didn't have professional representation from the outset and as far as I know neither QDOS customers nor PCG members have lost a case. So get that cover sorted and don't waste money on insuring against losses that you almost certainly won't be making.

Yeh. I was thinking maybe that just insuring to make sure I'm represented is the best option rather than waste money on insuring the losses as well.

PCG might be the way to go for this option.