Reply to: Cancelling accountant after 2 months

[psychocandy]

I guess its going to be difficult to prove etc but I've only paid him one month so far. Ideally would like to not pay him any more because hes been pretty useless...

[psychocandy]

Definitely wishful thinking. I'm an ACCA myself and have been for over 20 years yet still often cringe when I see accounts prepared or "advice" given by qualified accountants. It's not always just the junior staff that make mistakes either.

Just taken on a new client (not a contractor) and the previous accountant was an FCA (Fellow Chartered Accountant) sole trader. The statutory accounts are an absolute joke - wrong references to the Companies Act and FRSSE which should have got the accounts rejected at Companies House (but they clearly didn't check them), totals in the notes don't agree with the balance sheet balances, some obligatory notes not included. Then we come to "advice", such as not to pay a minimal salary but pay it all under PAYE instead (for a business that couldn't be caught by IR35 if it tried) - how about not putting the wife through the books even though she actually does work in the business "because HMRC don't like it" - how about not registering for VAT despite all customers being VAT reg businesses and a clear saving of £2k p.a. using flat rate scheme. I'm all for reporting him to the institute but the client doesn't want to rock the boat and is simply glad to have left!!

In theory, a recognised qualification should provide reassurance, but the reality is quite different. The ICAEW, for example is more likely to strike off a rogue accountant for not paying their annual membership rather than giving duff advice.

I'd say that personal recommendation is equally, if not more important, than simply checking that a potential firm/accountant is a qualified accountant. There are plenty of unqualified/qualified by experience accountants who are just as good as those with letters after their name. After all, the main accountancy bodies are not keen on admitting anyone from a slightly different background than the traditional A-Level and degree route, so lots of people with decades of experience are denied a chance to become properly qualified.

Pisses me off to pay an accountant good money and then find out hes potentially costing me money by giving me bad advice.

[philip@wellwoodhoyle]

There are a few professional bodies i.e. ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS. ...............
They are not suppose to screw up but doesn't mean they won't in a tiny minority of cases.

Definitely wishful thinking. I'm an ACCA myself and have been for over 20 years yet still often cringe when I see accounts prepared or "advice" given by qualified accountants. It's not always just the junior staff that make mistakes either.

Just taken on a new client (not a contractor) and the previous accountant was an FCA (Fellow Chartered Accountant) sole trader. The statutory accounts are an absolute joke - wrong references to the Companies Act and FRSSE which should have got the accounts rejected at Companies House (but they clearly didn't check them), totals in the notes don't agree with the balance sheet balances, some obligatory notes not included. Then we come to "advice", such as not to pay a minimal salary but pay it all under PAYE instead (for a business that couldn't be caught by IR35 if it tried) - how about not putting the wife through the books even though she actually does work in the business "because HMRC don't like it" - how about not registering for VAT despite all customers being VAT reg businesses and a clear saving of £2k p.a. using flat rate scheme. I'm all for reporting him to the institute but the client doesn't want to rock the boat and is simply glad to have left!!

In theory, a recognised qualification should provide reassurance, but the reality is quite different. The ICAEW, for example is more likely to strike off a rogue accountant for not paying their annual membership rather than giving duff advice.

I'd say that personal recommendation is equally, if not more important, than simply checking that a potential firm/accountant is a qualified accountant. There are plenty of unqualified/qualified by experience accountants who are just as good as those with letters after their name. After all, the main accountancy bodies are not keen on admitting anyone from a slightly different background than the traditional A-Level and degree route, so lots of people with decades of experience are denied a chance to become properly qualified.

[psychocandy]

All that means is that they understand about IR35 and other contractor issues. It's not a recommendation.



That's due to the lack of due diligence by the people they employ, who are normally quite young, dealing with the administration.

I've got close family members and friends who started off their accountancy training doing grunt work like that in small accountancy firms.

If you have worked with teenagers/young people regardless of education level, or employed them you would know that many of them don't seem to care about the quality of their work. Unfortunately you can't tell this until you've employed them. On the other hand those that do stand out a mile.

Maybe thats the reason. But I dont want to pay £100 a month and then have to query/send back 50% of the stuff that gets sent to me because its wrong.

[SueEllen]

Funnily enough I know they are PCG certified as well.

All that means is that they understand about IR35 and other contractor issues. It's not a recommendation.

I dont think they've done anything that could be considered misconduct just loads of stupid mistakes. Like 5/6 small things...

Strangely enough, a mate of mine is with them too and he says hes constantly sending things back to them too. Wrong company no written on forms, wrong amount on standing order form etc. Just stupid things.

That's due to the lack of due diligence by the people they employ, who are normally quite young, dealing with the administration.

I've got close family members and friends who started off their accountancy training doing grunt work like that in small accountancy firms.

If you have worked with teenagers/young people regardless of education level, or employed them you would know that many of them don't seem to care about the quality of their work. Unfortunately you can't tell this until you've employed them. On the other hand those that do stand out a mile.

[psychocandy]

There are a few professional bodies i.e. ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS. One body is not better than the other though there are a few accountancy bodies i.e. CIMA that you wouldn't want your accountant to be in due to the type of business you run.

What you need to do is check that the accountant is actually registered with one of them by as anyone can call themselves an "accountant". Either go to the website of the accounting body they claim to be with and see if you can find them on the membership list, or call the accounting body up and ask.



They are not suppose to screw up but doesn't mean they won't in a tiny minority of cases.

If they do there is a complaints procedure which is generally:
1. Complain to the senior member of the practice in writing and make sure they know it's a "Formal Complaint". (And you can prove they got the complaint.)
2. If not happy with the outcome, then complain to the accounting body they are a member off.

Funnily enough I know they are PCG certified as well.

I dont think they've done anything that could be considered misconduct just loads of stupid mistakes. Like 5/6 small things...

Strangely enough, a mate of mine is with them too and he says hes constantly sending things back to them too. Wrong company no written on forms, wrong amount on standing order form etc. Just stupid things.

[SueEllen]

There is a professional body that most of the accounting firms are affiliated with.

There are a few professional bodies i.e. ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS. One body is not better than the other though there are a few accountancy bodies i.e. CIMA that you wouldn't want your accountant to be in due to the type of business you run.

What you need to do is check that the accountant is actually registered with one of them by as anyone can call themselves an "accountant". Either go to the website of the accounting body they claim to be with and see if you can find them on the membership list, or call the accounting body up and ask.

I can't remember the name, but if your accountant is one of them, then they would not screw up. .

They are not suppose to screw up but doesn't mean they won't in a tiny minority of cases.

If they do there is a complaints procedure which is generally:
1. Complain to the senior member of the practice in writing and make sure they know it's a "Formal Complaint". (And you can prove they got the complaint.)
2. If not happy with the outcome, then complain to the accounting body they are a member off.

[psychocandy]

Spoken to a guy at Intouch. Grilled him a bit and he seemed quite helpful and knew his stuff regarding the euros etc.

I see a few people recommend them on here. So I'm considering going with them. Price seems good too - £75.

Anyone want me to quote them as referrer?

[rd409]

Probably not going to be the most helpful since I'm kicking him to touch !!!!

There is a professional body that most of the accounting firms are affiliated with. I can't remember the name, but if your accountant is one of them, then they would not screw up. You dont have to do anything, as everything will be handled by the new accountants. Usually they send an email/letter to the contact in the firm. They have a standard format, and standard request. As you are only couple of months into the financial year, they would not have to deal with lots of calculations hopefully.

[psychocandy]

Just make sure your new accountant understands you trade in different currencies and they are expected to do the VAT that per HMRC's rules.

Yep. Although this accountant swore blind he had loads of experience in dealing in Euros but it looks he didnt and has tried to blag his way this time.

[SueEllen]

Probably not going to be the most helpful since I'm kicking him to touch !!!!

Just make sure your new accountant understands you trade in different currencies and they are expected to do the VAT that per HMRC's rules.

[psychocandy]

I switched accountant way longer into the financial year. I transferred to NW, and they were happy to waive the fees, if I paid the year's fees all in one go. The fees is not too high, so did it. Also it depends on how helpful your old accountant would be in relenting the data to your new accountants.

As everyone has said, it is best to speak and negotiate with the new and old firms.

HTH.

Probably not going to be the most helpful since I'm kicking him to touch !!!!

[rd409]

My guess you'll pay your current accountant for the time spent, and pay your new accountant for the full year, but I could be wrong.

Try not to think of it as a monthly fee, more that they are splitting their yearly fee into 12 chunks for you.

So with the new accountant, it's not like he hasn't done the first few months work, just that his payment will be spread over a shorter time frame.

I switched accountant way longer into the financial year. I transferred to NW, and they were happy to waive the fees, if I paid the year's fees all in one go. The fees is not too high, so did it. Also it depends on how helpful your old accountant would be in relenting the data to your new accountants.

As everyone has said, it is best to speak and negotiate with the new and old firms.

HTH.

[Greg@CapitalCity]

With two months of trading I would be surprised of your new accountant charged you for bring that info across. Most accountants are happy to have the new customer, and are likely to waive any form of fees that would prevent someone from switching to them.

Having said that northernladuk is right - your questions can really only be answered by speaking directly with the accountants involved.

[northernladuk]

Anyway, checked what I signed up and its a fixed fee basis with 30 days notice to cancel. So I was wondering if I give him 30 days notice, am I only liable for the monthly payments for the months I've been with them?

Or can the accountant add extra charges because I've left early?

Ask them.

Also, if I go to another accountant, am I likely to pay more because because I'm part way through the year. Aware that monthly fees are biased towards the fact that a lot of the accountants work is at the end of year. For instance, you could expect to stroll into accountants at year end, pay him £100 for that month and expect a full set of company accounts done.

Ask them.

This is your money. It is up to you to sort it all out for you, not us.