P11 D - Who fills them out?

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

According to my accountant they do.

Then you need to take this up with your accountant. As I said, the HMRC A-Z guide is quite clear on what needs reporting and what doesn't.

Any specific examples?

For instance, I recently bought some office furniture. I didn't have my company debit card so I paid for it myself and claimed it back as an expense. I don't plan to put it on my P11D. It's clearly a company expense and office equipment has no reporting requirements.

The Expenses Guide booklet (480) says this:

Businesses are often run in such a way that employees make payments on their employer’s behalf. For example, an employee may buy stamps, stationery and items of equipment for the employer and be reimbursed the costs incurred from petty cash or by cheque. Such transactions are not providing the employee with either earnings or expenses because the employee has received no money of his own. Accordingly such reimbursements do not feature on the P11D.

The criteria for "business expenses", i.e. things I've paid for personally for business reasons that need to be reported on the P11D are travel expenses and expenses defined in the following links:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim31630.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim05020.htm

[Clippy]

It says quite clearly in black and white that you need to report it in box N on your P11D even though there is no NI to pay unless you have a dispensation.

For most contractors on here, I'd imagine the only things that would appear on your P11D are your travel and travel-related expenses (Box N). For pretty much everything else that you may have paid for personally (i.e. genuine company expenses that you've paid for on the company's behalf) they don't need reporting.

The A-Z guide is pretty comprehensive about which expenses:

* Result in PAYE/NI payments
* Need reporting

It's annoying I guess, but them's the rules.

According to my accountant they do.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

If you owe no tax or NI, you don't need to report it. So unless you pay more than the 40/20 per mile etc there is no tax to pay and no P11D filling needed

Don't do the needful!

It says quite clearly in black and white that you need to report it in box N on your P11D even though there is no NI to pay unless you have a dispensation.

For most contractors on here, I'd imagine the only things that would appear on your P11D are your travel and travel-related expenses (Box N). For pretty much everything else that you may have paid for personally (i.e. genuine company expenses that you've paid for on the company's behalf) they don't need reporting.

The A-Z guide is pretty comprehensive about which expenses:

* Result in PAYE/NI payments
* Need reporting

It's annoying I guess, but them's the rules.

[Clare@InTouch]

If you owe no tax or NI, you don't need to report it. So unless you pay more than the 40/20 per mile etc there is no tax to pay and no P11D filling needed

Don't do the needful!

You still need to report certain expenses on the P11D even if they are allowable and not NIC'able - travel expenses repaid for example (hotels, train fares etc). Unless you have a dispensation, which saves a fair amount of time each year!

[Clare@InTouch]

A director earning less than £8,500 a year still needs to complete a P11D unless they are a full time director owning less than 5% of the issued share capital or they are a director of a registered charity.

There's a reasonable PDF HMRC guide here:

P11D - Expenses Payments and Benefits

[amcdonald]

The P11D should show the value of any expenses reimbursed to employees, even if they are genuine business expenses:For company directors or employees earning at a rate of £8,500 or more per year:

report on form P11D - section N
• unless you have a dispensation covering this item
• you have no tax or NICs to pay

If you owe no tax or NI, you don't need to report it. So unless you pay more than the 40/20 per mile etc there is no tax to pay and no P11D filling needed

Don't do the needful!

[Lumiere]

Well I never pay myself enough to pay NI. So am always below 8500.

A lot of the guidance is also only about reporting above the normal rate. e.g. Mileage allowance.

So I'm happy with my current reporting plans.

Aren't you a director?

[prozak]

Well I never pay myself enough to pay NI. So am always below 8500.

A lot of the guidance is also only about reporting above the normal rate. e.g. Mileage allowance.

So I'm happy with my current reporting plans.

[Lumiere]

I am in the same situation (actually pay all travel expenses from personal cards/cash) and my accountant said there was no need for me to fill one.

The annual salary is less than £8500 but I am a director, not sure about expenses though, if that counts the assets purchased from personal cards and then reimbursed by the company or not.

for each director and for each employee earning over £8500 per year

Could it be that not filling it is acceptable if there was no NIC due ?

[Danielsjdaccountancy]

If you earn in excess of £8,500 per annum in salary or expenses then yes you’re obliged to.

[Clare@InTouch]

The P11D should show the value of any expenses reimbursed to employees, even if they are genuine business expenses:

Payments to meet or reimburse business expenses
You make a payment to an employee to cover their business expenses.

An expense counts as a business expense if it either:

•relates to business travel as defined below (this excludes business travel in an employee’s own vehicle, for which separate rules apply – see the ‘More useful links’ section)
•meets the criteria for other business expenses – for details, follow the links below
Only two types of journey count as business travel:

•journeys forming part of an employee's employment duties
•journeys related to an employee's attendance at a temporary workplace

For company directors or employees earning at a rate of £8,500 or more per year:

•report on form P11D - section N - unless you have a dispensation covering this item
•you have no tax or NICs to pay

HM Revenue & Customs: Expenses payments

This is then offset on your tax return as a valid expense. This is one of the reasons HMRC get tax codes wrong so much - they process one part but not the other.

You can make this easier by requesting a dispensation which would mean not having to report them:

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortform...//www.hmrc.gov.

[prozak]

Does anyone here bother with the P11 D?

I guess the question really is does anyone pay expenses outside of the company and other expenses that do not require reporting....

I've always only paid or re-imbursed company expenses and only paid real business mileage.... so have never bothered with a p11d and did not declare expenses on my recently filed SA.

Am I wrong?