Contracting in Ireland with UK ltd company

[ShandyDrinker]

Can I jump on this thread and ask a few more questions.
I normally only consider work in UK through own limited company.
Agency rang today and has me down for a telephone inerview tomorrow to work in Ireland.

So I have no offer on table and could just turn things down but in case I wanted to go through with this, then what sort of money per day should I be asking to work in Ireland for 6 months.

Second - can I invoice through UK limited company and charge no VAT?
Where do I pay the tax on salary and profit?

If you haven't already read it you probably want to have a look at this article posted on ContractorUK recently.

I'm going through the same thing at the moment so please take independent advice from your accountant or an Irish accountant rather than relying on what I write below. What I have written is based on my investigations/understanding so far.

It appears that:

• You can invoice through the UK limited company; you should charge no VAT. This is only worthwhile doing for 6 months though.
• I have been advised that an exemption can be applied for with regards to NICS using a form E101 or A1 from HMRC.
• For the 183 period you appear to be able to reach an agreement with the Irish Revenue that so long as you are paying TAX/NICS in the UK then you should be exempt from the obligation in Ireland. (*)

* - You will have to fill out forms to accomplish this.

Your question regarding rate really is open ended. It depends on your skill set, location in Ireland, end client sector and so on. However, from my observations with the contract I have been offered it appears that rates are approximately 20-30% lower than London but probably 30-40% higher than the North West.

From what I have been told by the agency I am through in Ireland is that rates for my skill set (C#, SQL, etc) are typically €300 - €400 with roles in the €400-€500 range being the exception.

Also bear in mind that if you are going to be in a location such as Dublin the cost of accommodation is not cheap.

From anecdotal evidence it appears that a lot of people seem to work through their UK Ltd company for 6 months and if they are offered an extension typically change to an umbrella solution.

If you find out any differing/conflicting information from what I've said above about the Tax/NICs then please post a reply.

[hotkee]

Can I jump on this thread and ask a few more questions.
I normally only consider work in UK through own limited company.
Agency rang today and has me down for a telephone inerview tomorrow to work in Ireland.

So I have no offer on table and could just turn things down but in case I wanted to go through with this, then what sort of money per day should I be asking to work in Ireland for 6 months.

Second - can I invoice through UK limited company and charge no VAT?
Where do I pay the tax on salary and profit?

[SueEllen]

I am contracting in Republic of Ireland. I have been here six months, but live in UK and fly in and out on weekends. I have six months to go.

The Irish umbrella company set me up as a director of a "shell" limited company here in Ireland and do paye and PRSI on the full amount that I get. They have now suggested dividing the moneys, where I can deal with the portion alloted (50%) through my limited company here in the uk. The rest is still accounted through them in Ireland as usual.

1. Will I still be liable on these moneys in Ireland for Tax and PRSI?
2. Could I abandon the umbrella company altogether and move everything to uk?

Even if you fly out every weekend if you are working there for a year you will be an Irish tax resident so you can't pay UK tax on your Irish earnings.

So I would check whether doing a division on the money is legal.

[ShandyDrinker]

I am contracting in Republic of Ireland. I have been here six months, but live in UK and fly in and out on weekends. I have six months to go.

The Irish umbrella company set me up as a director of a "shell" limited company here in Ireland and do paye and PRSI on the full amount that I get. They have now suggested dividing the moneys, where I can deal with the portion alloted (50%) through my limited company here in the uk. The rest is still accounted through them in Ireland as usual.

1. Will I still be liable on these moneys in Ireland for Tax and PRSI?
2. Could I abandon the umbrella company altogether and move everything to uk?

Hi Angelo,

Did you ever resolve how you were going to do this? I am investigating possible contract roles in Dublin and would ideally like to work through my UK ltd but from all the reading I've done this may not be the best option.

ShandyDrinker

[angelo]

Split payment

I am contracting in Republic of Ireland. I have been here six months, but live in UK and fly in and out on weekends. I have six months to go.

The Irish umbrella company set me up as a director of a "shell" limited company here in Ireland and do paye and PRSI on the full amount that I get. They have now suggested dividing the moneys, where I can deal with the portion alloted (50%) through my limited company here in the uk. The rest is still accounted through them in Ireland as usual.

1. Will I still be liable on these moneys in Ireland for Tax and PRSI?
2. Could I abandon the umbrella company altogether and move everything to uk?

[SueEllen]

If I was working 3 days a week out in Ireland, and considering that I'm the sole director, would I be creating a "permanent establishment" thereby becoming liable to Irish tax on the business profits?

Corporation Charge Basis of Charge

The term 'residence' was not, until recently, defined in law. The general rule was that companies, whose 'central management and control' was exercised in the State, were treated as resident here. This rule or test emerged as a result of judicial decisions set down in case law. Factors to be taken into account in establishing where the company's central management and control lie include, for example, where the important questions of company policy are determined, where the majority of directors reside, where the negotiation of major contracts is undertaken and where the company's head office is located.

Simplest solution is to just find another one of your family members resident in the UK who is happy to be director for a year. Then as all the main company decisions will happen in the UK i.e. board meetings you will have nothing to worry about.

[jambuie]

Article 8

Business Profits

1. The profits of an enterprise of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State unless the enterprise carried on business in the other Contracting State through a permanent establishment situated therein. If the enterprise carries on business as aforesaid, the profits of the enterprise may be taxes in the other State but only so much of them as is attributable to that permanent establishment.

Only thing you need to check is whether you working in Ireland changes the company's tax residency then in turn your residency if you only have one director.

If I was working 3 days a week out in Ireland, and considering that I'm the sole director, would I be creating a "permanent establishment" thereby becoming liable to Irish tax on the business profits?

[stuart_75]

I was wondering if if any of you could help,

I worked in Dublin for 3 months just over a year ago, flying back to the UK every weekend. Now Ive just recieved a CT1 form from the Irish Tax Office to pay corp tax. I'm panicing a bit, there is no contact numbers on it and their website doesnt seem very helpful.

I was only there for about 60 days but the agency at the time wanted me to register with the local tax office for PPS numbers, etc. I had no intention of staying for more than 3 months and as soon as something better in Blighty came up I was straight back home.

I dont suppose ignoring the form will help, but does anyone know who/what/how to tell them to go away?

Cheers

Stuart.

EDIT. I've found a TRCN1 form on their website which allows Tax Registration Cancellation. Fingers crossed.

[downsouth]

Yes, just finished there, only 6months in total but as you suggest a few remote days will obv work in your favour.

Depending on the contract length i'd be leaving any issues to a time when your approaching the 183 days, ask you accountant. Cannot charge VAT on your invoices.

Have you ever worked in Dublin before???? expensive aint the word, easy to get through a far bit of cash on hotels, flights etc etc, just make sure your rate is high as currency exchange on payment can fluctuate quite a bit costing you more

Aint all good over there tbh

[SueEllen]

If the Irish Taxman's site states this then it's correct.

Only thing you need to check is whether you working in Ireland changes the company's tax residency then in turn your residency if you only have one director.

[jambuie]

Has anyone here contracted in Ireland via their UK ltd company?

I have the possibility of a contract in Dublin. The contract should allow me to work remotely at least a couple of days a week. If I'm not going to be in Ireland for more than 183 days in their tax year, or 280 days across 2 tax years, am I right in thinking that I will have no liability for any Irish tax personally and for my company?

The relevant articles in the double taxation treaty between Ireland and the UK would seem to be the following:

Article 15

Employments

1. Subject to the provisions of Article 17 and 18, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that State unless the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (1) of this Article, remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if:
a) the recipient is present in the other State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the fiscal year concerned; and
b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of the other State; and
c) the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment or a fixed base which the employer has in the other State.

3. In relation to remuneration of a director of a company derived from the company the preceding provisions of this Article shall apply as if the remuneration were remuneration of an employee in respect of an employment and as if references to "employer" were references to the company.

Article 8

Business Profits

1. The profits of an enterprise of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State unless the enterprise carried on business in the other Contracting State through a permanent establishment situated therein. If the enterprise carries on business as aforesaid, the profits of the enterprise may be taxes in the other State but only so much of them as is attributable to that permanent establishment.

Based on my reading of those clauses, providing I keep myself under 183 days a year/280 over 2 years, I can just invoice the Irish client from my UK company. Or am I missing something?

Hopefully this is the case - 9 months on the bench and I'm starting to get pretty bored!!