problem with accountant

[NotAllThere]

Learning experience - get the T&Cs before signing up for anything. That's due diligence and it is your responsiblity as company director.

I'm still unclear. Is he charging you extra for explaining your payroll, or is this "extra" coming from you wanting to switch accountants?

Further - what bad advice has he given you?

[bcsltd]

Hi,

I agree that all contracts must be read and understood before signing but when my accountant proposed me, all he said that it is a 99+vat monthly fee with no obligation to leave. T & C should have been sent at the time of proposal and He did not send me T & C until I have paid a first month fee.
As mentioned in my previous post, the package which they offer me does include advice on payslip salary, dedicated phone and email support. So there is no reason why he should charge me extra for simple enquiry on how has he calculated my PAYE and NIC.
Moreover, I expect that accountant should give correct advice as otherwise client could end up in penalties.

Many thanks

[NotAllThere]

My guess is that you've signed up with the accountant for a year. £99 x 12 = £1200 as near as anything.

He's saying that if you wish to switch accountants, then he'll charge you for the work that he has done on an hourly basis - up to a maximum of £1200. So, if his hourly rate is £100, and he's done 5 hours work, he'll charge you £500. If you're signed up for a year, it doesn't seem unreasonable as an exit charge.

As a contractor, you need to understand what a contract is. Not just the contracts between you and the agency, but all other contracts you sign. Does the agreement you've signed allow him to make these charges?

On the face of it, I don't actually see anything necessarily unreasonable. You have your expectations and understanding - he has his. What we have here is a failure to communicate.

[NotAllThere]

Previous two messages deleted. Please keep it civil.

[bcsltd]

Hi everyone,

I have contacted this accountant in Feb when I was ready to incorporate my limited company. They agreed to me in email that there would fix fee of 99+vat which will be applicable only when company starts trading and they also agreed to setup the company for free.
Below is the extract from the gold package they promise me for 99+vat:

Bookkeeping (Including payroll, VAT, & Company Secretarial):

• Provision of bookkeeping forms for expenses, invoicing etc
• Reconciliation against bank statements
• Company & Employee payroll
• P45/P60/payslips/salary advice
• VAT returns and scheme administration
• P11D, P35 & P14

Company Accounts:

• Preparation & Filing of Company Accounts
• CT Computations

IR35

• Up to 2 IR35 Contract Reviews per annum

Self Assesment:

• Straight forward personal tax return included

Sundry

• Tax Advice
• Dedicated Accountant – email & phone support
• Monthly newsletter

My company actually started trading on 8th March but so far I have paid them ￡117.00 twice. First payment was on Feb 17 when they asked me to pay towards company formation efforts but they would wave off the first month's fees in return. Second payment was on 9th April which I thought to pay upfront for following month.

Since Feb till today they offered me following things:

• No more than 3 hours of occasional telephone or email communication when I wanted to ask about various things such as what is PAYE, NIC, VAT & Corporation Tax or Various HMRC VAT related queries
• Provided me salary slips for Jan and Feb (even though company was not formed I have asked them to provide me salary slip for Jan and Feb in order to get paid toward the efforts went into formation of company)
• Did payroll for fiscal year 09-10 (even though I have not provided them my March salary or any previous income)
• Advised me to pay some PAYE and NIC to HMRC based on payroll

I was surprised to see PAYE and NIC amount figure, and I have asked my accountant how did he calculated but I have not received any details.
I have realized that taking salary for Jan and Feb may have complication as the amounts withdrawn would be treated as a director’s loan and this would cause further complications and would need to be reported onto a P11d so I have asked my accountant to re-do payroll by providing appropriate advise and by taking accurate inputs.
This is when my accountant asked me to pay extra fees and bullied me that he will charge me on hourly basis something up to ￡1200.00 if I choose to move book.

Was I not timely on paying fixed fees?
Don't I deserve to enquire on any queries I may have?
Shouldn't my account offer me correct advice (atleast initially) on how and when I should withdraw?

I have all the email communication so far and I do not see anything extra I have asked than what their gold package was supposed to cover.

How can I handle this greedy accountant who may put me in various troubles?

I really appreciate time you spent so far helping me out.

Many Thanks,
gcsltd

[Stag Cozier]

However, now he is bullying me that if I wish to change my accountant he would charge me some ￡1200.00 for whatever advise he might have give me so far. This is complete absurd and I do not know what to do in such situation.

That's a bargain £99 "fixed" fee is exactly that I would have thought. What's in your T & C's with your old accountant? Have they broken down the £1,200?

[Sally BFCA]

Good advice. It looks like he's trying to charge more just because you're threatening to leave. Tell him to shove it, and if he's a qualified accountant (ACA, ACCA, CIMA etc) threaten to report him to his institute.

I second that.

bcsltd, feel free to call me on 0207 015 2146 or email [email protected]. I'm always happy to give general advice (I would have to carry out an anti-money laundering check to give you specific advice to your circumstances) even if you stay with the current accountant.

[Vallah]

eekeekeekeek Blimey, that's one heck of an additional fee from your "all inclusive" monthly retainer!! Something not right there, you can ask for a breakdown of this amount and request full details of what has been supplied in addition to the all inclusive fee.

Good advice. It looks like he's trying to charge more just because you're threatening to leave. Tell him to shove it, and if he's a qualified accountant (ACA, ACCA, CIMA etc) threaten to report him to his institute.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Hi,
However, now he is bullying me that if I wish to change my accountant he would charge me some ￡1200.00 for whatever advise he might have give me so far. This is complete absurd and I do not know what to do in such situation.

eekeekeekeek Blimey, that's one heck of an additional fee from your "all inclusive" monthly retainer!! Something not right there, you can ask for a breakdown of this amount and request full details of what has been supplied in addition to the all inclusive fee.

[jmo21]

Secondly, he did payroll for fiscal 09-10 even before I have advised my March withdrawals and I do not understand how he has calculated PAYE and NIC and asked him to provide me details on this calculation.

Clearly, your first language is not English.

Most contractor focused accountants will advise you on the salary to take, it is up to you if you wish to follow this advice - they'll then give you a schedule to follow.

What withdrawals did you make? random amounts, or did you calculate your own salary, paye and nics based on what you wanted to draw as salary?

Did you tell the accountant what you wished to pay, and to adjust the schedule accordingly?

[bcsltd]

Hi,
Thank you for posting me replies. When my accountant proposed me his services he did mentioned that I have no obligation to stick to him and I can leave anytime I wish. Also, he mentioned to me that fees are applicable only when company does trading.

However, now he is bullying me that if I wish to change my accountant he would charge me some ￡1200.00 for whatever advise he might have give me so far. This is complete absurd and I do not know what to do in such situation.

All I want to do is to ensure that I understand how can I withdraw and how is my PAYE or NIC is calculated and have a smooth accountancy going forward.

Is there any way to handle this (arbitration / litigation / what else)?

Is there any accountant out there who could be trusted to make this switch if I wish?

Many Thanks,
PB

[Sally BFCA]

Hi bscltd

In my personal opinion, what you are asking is not unreasonable for the fees that you are paying, and you should have the right to understand how your salary has been calculated.

If you do not get the responses you need you may wish to consider moving accountants, provided that you are not tied into a contractual period with them.

For your information, if you did move, the work they need to do is:

1) Write giving the new accountant professional clearance (standard letter)
2) Provide accounting information (usually a breakdown of balances in the year end accounts) which will not really be applicable if you started in March.

I trust you get a satisfactory outcome.

Best regards
Sally

[bcsltd]

Sure, I appreciae your help.

Firstly, I recently (trading started in March this year) moved into contracting career so I was not very well aware of best way of drawing and other accounting aspects of this field. My accountant was aware of it but he did not advise me on how much I can withdraw realistically and did not helped me in initial calculations I have done. Basically I have provided him calculation in excel to show projected earning, projected cost and possible earnings, all I was asking him to advise on projected earnings in the context.

Secondly, he did payroll for fiscal 09-10 even before I have advised my March withdrawals and I do not understand how he has calculated PAYE and NIC and asked him to provide me details on this calculation.
I think an issue is that because I am new to this field; my accountant is not resolving my initial queries as otherwise it will be smooth monthly balance sheet. Due to lack of some initial advice, I have issues now with my PAYE and NIC calculation and he is asking more fees to re-do payroll or for any advice on accounting structure although it was proposed to be included in my fees. Moreover, if I wish to change my accountant he is stating he will charge me even more which is bullying and was not agreed ever.

Many thanks,
PB

[jmo21]

what are you asking him?

Only then can we know whether or not he is being reasonable or not.

[bcsltd]

Dear All,

My accountant is not advising me enough (as promised when proposed me) with 99+VAT fixed fee and I am not happy with the job he is doing. He is asking for more fees and bullying me to charge extra if I choose to change my accountant.

I honestly disagree that there is any extra fees needs to be paid as I am not asking my accountant anything extra than what a accountant "must do" in general. It only looks like my accountant is greedy for fees

What do you advise me to do if my accountant is bullying and doesn't seems helpful in advising properly or resolving issues? Has anyone come accross such situation?

Many Thanks for your support.

Regards,
PB