Reply to: HMRC Appeals advice

[Clippy]

What an absolute palava!!

Have been chasing my accountant and HMRC to progress this for the last 2 weeks and have finally got a result.

Long story short, HMRC have amended my Self Assessment tax liability to match the figures originally submitted by my accountant so am just waiting for an amended statement to confirm this.

After talking to HMRC today, they mentioned it was amended due to an adjusted Self Assessment return dated 13 May 2010.

My question to them which they were un-able to answer is was an adjusted Self Assesssment actually submitted or was my original Self Assessment amended by HMRC based on a letter of appeal my accountant wrote in March.

In my mind, it should have been the latter (letter of appeal) as that, to my understanding, is the defined process.

However, if resolving this quickly was simply a case of submitting an amended Self Assessment I would have got my accountant to do this months ago.

Anyone know?

[Papavar]

I had one of my SAs looked at because I stupidly missed the box about being liable for student loan re-payments on the new forms. I called HMRC and apologised for being an idiot. New SA statement arrived within a few days and I paid online straight away. A couple of weeks later I got the closure notice from HMRC. 6 weeks sounds like a long time... I'd chase them up.

[Clippy]

Visited my accountant today to go over the figures submitted and tracked down the error.

He had included some of my Ltd company expenses as BIK when he shouldn't have as they were incurred wholly and exclusively to carry out my contract role.

He advised he would write to HMRC to advise them of this and that they would review and re-submit a new Self Assessment statement.

To the accountants - have you experienced similar scenarios where clients Self Assessments have had to be amended? How do HMRC take to this? Do they happily amend with a 'wrist slap' approach or do they dig deeper and ask for further evidence?

It's actually very common for a P11d to be submitted with vaild expenses, and HMRC to then allocate them as a BIK - something to do with the way they transfer the data onto their systems. I've had this happen to a lot of clients when what we submitted was absolutely correct.

They should simply amend the assesment and that will be the end of it.

Hmm, six weeks have passed since my accountant wrote to HMRC regarding this matter and still no sign of an amended statement.

Does it normally take this long for HMRC to review and provide an amended self assessment statement?

Bit of a pain as I need to get this wrapped up ASAP as I wish to change accountant.

[Clare@InTouch]

Appreciate the replies.

Last question - my accountant is going to write to them tomorrow - he is out of the office today. Do you think HMRC will sort it at their end before the new tax codes are issued? Would rather not go through the pain of having to sort that out as well at some point!

Probably not knowing HMRC! When the coding notice comes through it's easy enough to get changed though, simply call HMRC and ask for it to be adjusted. They should then reissue it quite quickly

[Clippy]

Very possibly. They take the allowable expenses figure and transfer it across as non-allowable. It's amazing how many people it happens to, and that HMRC haven't sorted it out at their end. It often results in incorrect tax codes with higher rate adjustments.

Appreciate the replies.

Last question - my accountant is going to write to them tomorrow - he is out of the office today. Do you think HMRC will sort it at their end before the new tax codes are issued? Would rather not go through the pain of having to sort that out as well at some point!

[Clare@InTouch]

Great thanks.

So, you think that HMRC added the expenses to my Self Assessment themselves from my P11D as opposed to my accountant inadvertently adding them? This would make more sense.

Very possibly. They take the allowable expenses figure and transfer it across as non-allowable. It's amazing how many people it happens to, and that HMRC haven't sorted it out at their end. It often results in incorrect tax codes with higher rate adjustments.

[Clippy]

It's actually very common for a P11d to be submitted with vaild expenses, and HMRC to then allocate them as a BIK - something to do with the way they transfer the data onto their systems. I've had this happen to a lot of clients when what we submitted was absolutely correct.

They should simply amend the assesment and that will be the end of it.

Great thanks.

So, you think that HMRC added the expenses to my Self Assessment themselves from my P11D as opposed to my accountant inadvertently adding them? This would make more sense.

[Clare@InTouch]

Visited my accountant today to go over the figures submitted and tracked down the error.

He had included some of my Ltd company expenses as BIK when he shouldn't have as they were incurred wholly and exclusively to carry out my contract role.

He advised he would write to HMRC to advise them of this and that they would review and re-submit a new Self Assessment statement.

To the accountants - have you experienced similar scenarios where clients Self Assessments have had to be amended? How do HMRC take to this? Do they happily amend with a 'wrist slap' approach or do they dig deeper and ask for further evidence?

It's actually very common for a P11d to be submitted with vaild expenses, and HMRC to then allocate them as a BIK - something to do with the way they transfer the data onto their systems. I've had this happen to a lot of clients when what we submitted was absolutely correct.

They should simply amend the assesment and that will be the end of it.

[Clippy]

Visited my accountant today to go over the figures submitted and tracked down the error.

He had included some of my Ltd company expenses as BIK when he shouldn't have as they were incurred wholly and exclusively to carry out my contract role.

He advised he would write to HMRC to advise them of this and that they would review and re-submit a new Self Assessment statement.

To the accountants - have you experienced similar scenarios where clients Self Assessments have had to be amended? How do HMRC take to this? Do they happily amend with a 'wrist slap' approach or do they dig deeper and ask for further evidence?

[Clippy]

So, what lands on my doormat this morning?

The copy of my Self Assessment statement which was requested on Friday as the original one, which was allegedly posted to me on 21 February, never arrived.

Proof that HMRC can process paperwork quickly if they can get off their fat a*ses!

[ChimpMaster]

...........
I was surprised that the accountant was so forceful with them and she told me that they were basically office workers paid minimum wage so don't expect too much intelligence from them!
.......

So true, so true. The worst thing is that they are made to believe that they are Gods.

[Maslins]

Thanks for the tip about my accountant being able to view what HMRC claim is the tax due online - I may ask him to look at this on Monday.

By going on line, are my accountants able to obtain a copy of the tax returns they submitted? Reason for asking is my potential new accountant requires a copy of the previous years return when you join them.

You can't download the actual return submitted, but can request HMRC to send a copy of it, usually only takes a few days. The only thing you can see on the website (again this is assuming your current accountant is registered as tax agent for you, otherwise he won't be able to see anything) is the tax liabilities for each year, and payments made. As Clare said earlier, how HMRC choose to match payments against liabilities can sometimes be a little frustrating!

As part of the handover process (you changing accountant) your new accountant should write to your previous accountant for professional clearance. Usually this is a token formality, and the previous accountant will also then forward copies of all relevant info such as most recent accounts, tax returns, along with any useful workings.

NB try to avoid calling your existing accountant an arse directly until after this has been done, otherwise it may slip down his priority list

[Wanderer]

Am even more pissed off after speaking to the extremely obtuse woman at HMRC this morning.

I had a problem with HMRC and my accountant phoned them up and ripped their head off about it. The HMRC told the accountant to get me to put it all down in writing but my accountant told them that it was their cock-up and they were going to sort it out as the company director was a very busy man.

I was surprised that the accountant was so forceful with them and she told me that they were basically office workers paid minimum wage so don't expect too much intelegence from them!

Don't let the b'stards grind you down. Wait till you get the letter (record which date it arrives), then beat your accountant up for making a mess and get them to sort it out.

Good luck!

[Clippy]

Any correspondence you receive should be going to your accountant as well (assuming a 64-8 is in place as has been mentioned above - this is typically one of the first things an accountant will do when they take you on, otherwise HMRC won't talk to them).

They should also be able to look online to see what HMRC show as the tax due for the year, and in turn it will show where your payments have been allocated.

It's possible that the accountant put something in the wrong box/similar and HMRC are correct, but it's also quite possible HMRC have cocked something up. If I were you I'd ask the accountant to look into it. They should fairly quickly be able to find the difference, and then decide whether it's correct or not (though expect some ass covering excuses to come out if the accountant was wrong!)

As an aside, I'd also double check HMRC have the correct address for you. Especially if you've got several taxes to deal with (eg VAT, PAYE, CT etc) you may well find if you move and you inform them it doesn't get through to all departments, so statements can go to old addresses.

Unfortunately, my accountant is an a*rse!

I called and spoke to the secretary/office junior who checked my file and advised that they have not received a copy of my statement from HMRC.

Thanks for the tip about my accountant being able to view what HMRC claim is the tax due online - I may ask him to look at this on Monday.

By going on line, are my accountants able to obtain a copy of the tax returns they submitted? Reason for asking is my potential new accountant requires a copy of the previous years return when you join them.

Before I forget, I really appreciate everyone replying - If anything, it helped calm me down after talking to the stupid woman at HMRC this morning.

[Maslins]

Any correspondence you receive should be going to your accountant as well (assuming a 64-8 is in place as has been mentioned above - this is typically one of the first things an accountant will do when they take you on, otherwise HMRC won't talk to them).

They should also be able to look online to see what HMRC show as the tax due for the year, and in turn it will show where your payments have been allocated.

It's possible that the accountant put something in the wrong box/similar and HMRC are correct, but it's also quite possible HMRC have cocked something up. If I were you I'd ask the accountant to look into it. They should fairly quickly be able to find the difference, and then decide whether it's correct or not (though expect some ass covering excuses to come out if the accountant was wrong!)

As an aside, I'd also double check HMRC have the correct address for you. Especially if you've got several taxes to deal with (eg VAT, PAYE, CT etc) you may well find if you move and you inform them it doesn't get through to all departments, so statements can go to old addresses.