Reply to: Have accepted a permie job in Munich...

[tim123]

Don't forget to put "none" in the religion box when you fill in any form.

Doing otherwise is an expensive mistake

tim

[SalsaFever]

Am I to understand, I won't even have to declare my UK rental income in Germany, so that they can decide the tax rate on my German earnings?

I suggest you better talk to a german accountant.

I am sure you have to declare your worldwide income regardless wherever it's sourced in your german taxes.

Failure to do so might result penalties.

I have first hand experience where f-amt checking someone's online profile and claimed taxes for his previous contract assignment in other EU country (within same tax year).

[darmstadt]

I started here as a permie some 20 years ago and have forgotten everything but the one thing I do remember is that once you have done a tax return then you need to do one every year otherwise you don't need to see an accountant and just let your company do your paperwork for you. If you think you're going to get money back each year then make sure that the accountant charges are less than what you receive from the Finanzamt otherwise it ain't worth it.

Top tip: if you do want to do a tax return but don't want to use an accountant, some of the computer packages are quite good but also you can get the forms from the F-amt and do them yourself. For a few years I did this and then for each section I used to wander up to the F-amt and ask them if what I had filled in was correct. By law they have to tell you what goes in each section but they can't tell what to put in each section which is a good way of checking to see that you are claiming for the correct stuff.

[LostInBrussels]

You must declare any income that you have, since you registered in Germany, except foreign rental income, coz it aint taxable.

Your salary will have to be declared, and put in the box which is exempt accoridng to the DTA. A PAYE slip will suffice. This won't be taxed but will push up your tax rate on other income.

Your UK income will be taxed in the UK as you were resident for part of the year, but you might be on a lower tax rate.

I will take your advice and find an accountant in Germany. As I mentioned, I will be a permie in Germany so my tax should be deducted at source and I would love to have no extra paperwork. Am I to understand, I won't even have to declare my UK rental income in Germany, so that they can decide the tax rate on my German earnings?

[LostInBrussels]

When you filing out German tax, don't forget to include your income from previous country you worked for the same tax year.

Famt is googling internet profiles to find out if you worked somewhere else during the tax year.

I know some people arrived in Germany at the middle of the year and declared themselves as on-the-bench for the first half.

Once they busted because of AFSS / PSB scam, famt also brought 'undeclared income from previous employment' issue on the table, as an appetizer

This would explain why my new employer has asked for my tax card, details of my current social security, details of number of days vacation I have taken this year etc. I'm in a scramble trying to get the info together. Maybe since I start work on Jan 3rd, all this info is not really necessary for them? I think they sent me a standard letter that they send off to all their new employees.

[Olly]

it should be perfectly OK.

......ermmmm
so you don't know then?
sorry, sounds a bit rude doesn't it....wasn't meant to be, just a polite dig

[SalsaFever]

so what about taking the dividend in Dec then starting work in DE in Jan?

it should be perfectly OK.

[Olly]

so it's pretty much the same as being taxed in Germany for it then!!!
buuuuuuuuuuut
as I mentioned before. German tax yr runs from Jan so what about taking the dividend in Dec then starting work in DE in Jan?

[SalsaFever]

If you arrive sometime in the middle of the tax year, you only declare income that you received after you arrived in Germany.

Hey Blaster,

You are wrong this time.

In Germany, you have to declare your world wide income. You have to declare whatever income you receive before you came to Germany and after you left the Germany if it falls into the same tax year.

The point is you won't be taxed for the income sourced outside of Germany, but it will change your tax rate according the progression clause in German tax law.

So let say, you did 6 month contract in Belgium then moved to Germany within same tax year, you have to declare your Belgium income to f-amt which will likely increase your tax rate.

Same principle applies, if you work in Germany, then moved to Belgium, then you have to declare Belgium income in your German tax papers.

In both cases, your outside income won't be taxed, but your tax rate will be calculated according to your worldwide income.

[Olly]

Your didvidends certainly will be taxable, you need the approriate form for your didvidends. though they will deduct UK tax from this. Corporate income from your Ltd is exempt doesn't need to be declared as this is a UK entity.

I don't pay further tax on my dividends because keep them under the 36Kish total income limit. I'm guessing those dividends must stop when I'm in DE or I'll pay tax on them?

If you arrive sometime in the middle of the tax year, you only declare income that you received after you arrived in Germany. So best to make sure all your salary and dividends are paid out before you register.

ERm....so I can have ALL my UK allowances even though I didn't complete a full UK tax yr and Mr German tax man can't include them in their calcs?
Sounds mighty generous

[BlasterBates]

German tax yr runs from Jan though doesn't it?
Who would you be paying tax to if you worked as Ltd contractor in UK in 09 and as PAYE standard employee in DE from Jan on???
Anyone know?
Anyone care to provide misinformed speculation ?
Ta Olly

You must declare any income that you have, since you registered in Germany, except foreign rental income, coz it aint taxable.

Your didvidends certainly will be taxable, you need the approriate form for your didvidends. though they will deduct UK tax from this. Corporate income from your Ltd is exempt doesn't need to be declared as this is a UK entity. Your salary will have to be declared, and put in the box which is exempt accoridng to the DTA. A PAYE slip will suffice. This won't be taxed but will push up your tax rate on other income.

If you arrive sometime in the middle of the tax year, you only declare income that you received after you arrived in Germany. So best to make sure all your salary and dividends are paid out before you register. You'll be in the fortunate position of having a low tax rate if the tax year only has a few months to run.

Your UK income will be taxed in the UK as you were resident for part of the year, but you might be on a lower tax rate.

[BlasterBates]

No in Germany as it so happens rental income from abroad is not taxable. Due to naughty Germans offsetting losses from foreign property against German income in the past.

If it's your own home you're quids in.

If you're rental income is a business, it remains taxable anyway in the UK, from what I understand.

See a tax advisor anyway. I had one and that's what he advised me.

[Olly]

When you filing out German tax, don't forget to include your income from previous country you worked for the same tax year.

Famt is googling internet profiles to find out if you worked somewhere else during the tax year.

I know some people arrived in Germany at the middle of the year and declared themselves as on-the-bench for the first half.

Once they busted because of AFSS / PSB scam, famt also brought 'undeclared income from previous employment' issue on the table, as an appetizer

German tax yr runs from Jan though doesn't it?
Who would you be paying tax to if you worked as Ltd contractor in UK in 09 and as PAYE standard employee in DE from Jan on???
Anyone know?
Anyone care to provide misinformed speculation ?
Ta Olly

[SalsaFever]

When you filing out German tax, don't forget to include your income from previous country you worked for the same tax year.

Famt is googling internet profiles to find out if you worked somewhere else during the tax year.

I know some people arrived in Germany at the middle of the year and declared themselves as on-the-bench for the first half.

Once they busted because of AFSS / PSB scam, famt also brought 'undeclared income from previous employment' issue on the table, as an appetizer

[LostInBrussels]

Gotcha.

Lots more paperwork to look forward to