Goodwill Capital Allowance

[Archangel]

Thanks again Maslins.

[Maslins]

When you say "Any impairment is fully tax deductible for your company." I assume this is the same as depreciation? i.e. I can depreciate over 25 years and the 4% pa would be tax deductable.

Basically yes, but there's no need to string it out over as long a period as that. Also there's no reason why it needs to be the same each year.

Eg if the goodwill was £100k, you could impair (write off) £20k in year 1, £50k in year 2, £30k in year 3.

In theory you need to assess the value of the goodwill each year, and decide what it's now worth...but this is akin to how long a piece of string is, so in the real world people tend to pick a value that will best suit them for tax purposes, and provided it won't look too dodgy, go with that.

[Archangel]

Thanks for your response Maslins.

My company is buying the assets, fixtures and fittings and stock of the other company which will then be disolved by the current owner. I have renamed my company to align with the current ltd name, (with (2009) after the name, after the old company has been disolved I'll do another rename to remove the suffix).

When you say "Any impairment is fully tax deductible for your company." I assume this is the same as depreciation? i.e. I can depreciate over 25 years and the 4% pa would be tax deductable.

thanks again

[Maslins]

Be careful here...when "purchasing a company" there's two very different things you can do:

1) buy the share capital of the company. This way you take over the company as is. There was no goodwill before you bought it, and there's none afterwards either.

The excess you pay over the net assets will simply leave you with a higher base cost against capital gains if you sell the company in the future.

In this scenario it also makes a big difference whether you personally buy the shares (hence you perhaps own two Limited Companies yourself), or whether your existing Ltd Co purchases the shares (in which you have a small group of companies).

Aside from the tax aspects, bear in mind you not only buy all the good stuff you want, but you'll also inherit with it any hidden nasties, such as warranties, or lawsuits against the company which have not yet come to fruition.

2) buy the trade and assets from the company. This way they are all effectively brought into your existing company, and you simply have one larger company going forward.

Any excess you pay over the net assets will be goodwill, which (provided you bought from an independent third party), should be reviewed for impairment annually. Any impairment is fully tax deductible for your company.

The seller is then simply left with a shell of a company with a load of cash in it (being the sale proceeds). Any hidden liabilities stay within this shell of a company, hence no risk to you.


Therefore typically the buyer (ie you) wants to buy the trade and assets. The seller however often would rather sell the shares, as they would typically get much better tax treatment (capital gain with entrepreneurs relief as an individual, rather than a chargeable gain within the company, with further tax when they extract the funds).

There are also further considerations such as possible stamp duty payable on the shares, and also VAT issues on the transaction, so have a chat with a suitably qualified accountant before jumping into a transaction like this.

[Archangel]

You get tax relief on the amount amortised, provided the amortisation policy is reasonable.

Thanks Thepuma, that;s what I thought.

The reply above from Darren confused me

In essense however, CA's not available on goodwill

[Hex]

You get tax relief on the amount amortised, provided the amortisation policy is reasonable.

Hello PUMA. Nice to see you again.

[THEPUMA]

Thanks for the replies so far.

My company has acquired the assets of another ltd company (i.e. goodwill, fixtures and fittings and SAV).

So no cap allowance on goodwill, ho hum.

So what is the point of amortising it?

You get tax relief on the amount amortised, provided the amortisation policy is reasonable.

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Goodwill

Amortisation of goodwill is part of an accounting standard. If the value of the goodwill does not reduce, then you can amend the accounting policy in your company accounts.

[Archangel]

Thanks for the replies so far.

My company has acquired the assets of another ltd company (i.e. goodwill, fixtures and fittings and SAV).

So no cap allowance on goodwill, ho hum.

So what is the point of amortising it?

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

Capital Allowances

If your company has acquired another, it has purchased the shares in the other company.

As such this is not goodwill, just purchase of shares and no capital allowances are available.

If on the other hand you've acquired a business from say a sole trader or partnership for example, different matter and the capital allowances available will depend on the split of the acquisition between goodwill, fixtures/fittings, etc. In essense however, CA's not available on goodwill....I'd strongly recommend you speak to your accountant before completing the acquisition in case you need to make any tweaks to the purchase contract.

[ASB]

Hi Accountancy Gurus!

If my Ltd company buys another Ltd company (unconnected) and there is a 50k purchase of goodwill, AIUI we can amortise the goodwill over 20 years. Does this mean we can reduce our corporation tax by 2.5k in year 1 (5% of 50000), 2.25k in year 2 (5% of 45k) etc?

Any links to HMRC docs greatfully recieved.

I believe you can write the goodwill off whenever you want. Question of course is the tax charge.

IN the example you give I believe you will find that the value written off can be allocated against profit not against tax, thus the tax saving will be your marginal CT rate * amount written off.

This might get you started on ascertaining how it all ties into you specific situation.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/prpumanual/3600/3646.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cirdmanual/CIRD30510.htm

[TheFaQQer]

This sounds like a really interesting and complicated high level business question of which I would have loved to partake at your level of understanding to further my reputation with my fine upstanding colleagues on this board.... unfortunately all I can offer is that you spelt gratefully wrong at the end... Sorry

[northernladuk]

This sounds like a really interesting and complicated high level business question of which I would have loved to partake at your level of understanding to further my reputation with my fine upstanding colleagues on this board.... unfortunately all I can offer is that you spelt gratefully wrong at the end... Sorry

[Archangel]

Hi Accountancy Gurus!

If my Ltd company buys another Ltd company (unconnected) and there is a 50k purchase of goodwill, AIUI we can amortise the goodwill over 20 years. Does this mean we can reduce our corporation tax by 2.5k in year 1 (5% of 50000), 2.25k in year 2 (5% of 45k) etc?

Any links to HMRC docs greatfully recieved.