Claiming expenses for travel to interview

[dang65]

You did, but you were wrong there as well.

The French corporation and social tax laws only apply if you are resident for more than 6 months or the controlling director of the company is a French resident.

But that is my situation. I'll be flying home most weekends, but will be working in France (tax resident) and the contract is for a year, possibly more.

Like I said, I know limited companies work excellently for a lot of people, but I've gone through the figures with three different accountants and there is no advantage at all in me starting a limited company, so I'll stick with the brolly for now and change if my situation changes.

[malvolio]

You did, but you were wrong there as well.

The French corporation and social tax laws only apply if you are resident for more than 6 months or the controlling director of the company is a French resident. If you are working for a UK company and invoices are being paid to the UK, they shouldn't apply - but knowing French bureaucrats, anything is possible. Similarly, they may decide your salary is taxable in France after 6 months, umbrella or not.

[Chico]

I never ever got the logic of a brolly. If you contract is caught by IR35 then whether you are a brolly or a LTD it makes no difference. You just have to pay the extra tax. The issue as mal rightly puts is why then pay a sizeable fee to the brolly to do what your limited could itself - and even cheaper at that!!!! Sorry I can never ever buy the brolly argument. Maybe they use fuzzy maths to sign people up.

[dang65]

The brolly can't do anything a Ltd can't...

I've already replied to that one.

[malvolio]

Don't doubt you did the research, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate - and pointing out that you don't have to use an umbrella. At the end of the day, it's your decision and clearly one you're happy with.


That said, I still can't follow why someone would pay a fee out of taxable income to someone else to do about 5 hours work a year and think it's good economic sense. The brolly can't do anything a Ltd can't and costs more than a basic accountancy service. Ho hum...

[dang65]

I've had this same discussion with so many other contractors, all recommending that I go and see their accountant because he does such a great job for them and will sort me out no problem. On three occasions I took them up on the offer, only to have the great accountants confirm that I am far better off working to an umbrella company in my situation.

Maybe I caught all three of them on an off day and they just couldn't be bothered to work with me. But I did spend about two hours with each one before they said it.

[malvolio]

I just need to persuade them to let me claim the interview flight as expenses!

I think you just answered your own question...

Anyway, it's still nonsense - you can be inside IR35 with your own company. Only real difference is you are not paying a fee to someone else to do the stuff you can easily do for yourself (which is even easier if you are caught by IR35). Being inside the umbrella is nothing to do wth IR35 - since you are employed and paying full NICs and PAYE anyway, it doesn't enter the equation. Plus if you ever get a non-IR35 contract, you're already in a position to maximise your earnings.

And you can claim your full expenses without argument.

As has been said before, one accountant that knows the subject is a far better option than three that apparently don't...

[dang65]

There is nothing that you can do through a Brolly that you can not do through your own limited !

If I had my own limited and went to work in France then the French taxman would consider the operation of the company to be based in France and would charge me French corporation tax. I'd also have to make French social security payments which are a lot higher than UK NI.

By using the umbrella company I can continue paying UK NI contributions and just pay French income tax. They will also deal with all the accounting in both countries, which would be way beyond me and I don't fancy trying to find two seperate accountants, one in France and one in the UK.

There's a couple of other advantages as mentioned here.

I realise many people are far better off with their own limited company, but there are others who are better off with an umbrella. I've gone through the alternatives with three different accountants, all personally recommended to me, and the all came to the same conclusion.

I just need to persuade them to let me claim the interview flight as expenses!

[MrsGoof]

There is nothing that you can do through a Brolly that you can not do through your own limited !

Its your money

[dang65]

That's an interesting interpretation of the situation! So, it's a legitimate and legal claim, but the umbrella company can block it? Don't think so. I think they've just misunderstood the situation and think I'm trying to claim expenses for a trip paid for by the client, which it wasn't.

I'd be interested in other comments.

n.b. I use an umbrella company because I'm well caught by IR35 and have been advised by every accountant I've consulted that this is the best option in my position. None of them have come up with better figures for any other option. Same goes for working in France - stick with the umbrella option says everyone.

[malvolio]

Sorry, but that's the price you pay for letting other people run your business for you. You work for the umbrella, so you're stuck with their interpetation of the rules. FWIW it is a legitimate business expense and is reclaimable - but if the umbrella choose not to agree there's not a lot of options left.

[dang65]

I've been with an umbrella company for nearly five years now, and in the same contract for all that time. Recently I flew to Paris for a job interview, paying my own way. I got the job and will be starting there in a few weeks, flying home to the UK at weekends.

I asked the umbrella company if I could claim the flight to Paris as expenses and they said, "Unfortunately you cannot claim for the interview, you can claim expenses once you are working on the contract."

I've replied to them questioning this, as I am an employee of the umbrella company and will remain their employee when I'm working in France. What is the difference between flying out to a job interview to get myself more work and, say, flying to the Paris office of my current employer to discuss a new project? Does the IR somehow differentiate between the two situations? The umbrella company haven't replied yet (two days now). Maybe they have a team of experts working on the problem.