Reply to: Belgium: umbrella companies

[Cameron Wallace]

how are you searching? The ones you mention are most of them I think. try searching under contractor taxation belgium as I think a couple of them only work via direct referrals. I think some are in trouble in Belgium and have subsequently pulled the pin

[candyflipper]

Conto Direct Ltd- (Good reasonable fees NL)

Scratch them off the list. Conto Direct does nothing more than accounting. They cannot do invoicing and pay freelancers, and they cannot directly employ contractors. They simply refer contractors to AFSS.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Guichets d'entreprises

I guess if your 'employer' is Swiss or Cypriot, it's legal for them to pay social security for you where their company is based.

Anyhow, I am considering setting up my own SPRL. Sorry to be a pain, but can you tell me exactly how I can do it on my own.What is Securex? Is that the place where I have to register? Do you have a phone number or postal code for the place? Just typing in 4 Rue de Genéve into mappy.be is bringing up too many option.

Also, in your calculations in this thread, you show about 500 in expenses. Were you not interested in increasing your expenses by setting up a pension plan? I'm in two minds about this myself.

Hi Lost in Brussels, You don't have to use Securex as it just happens to be the "Guichets d'entreprises" that I chose.
http://mineco.fgov.be/enterprises/cr...kbo_fr_006.htm
You will need a Guichets d'entreprises will to do all the required paperwork to set yourself up.
In Belgium Social security is compulsory but you can chose your insurance company . They all charge the same legal rate ,the difference being sevice.
Securex.be -32 2729 95 87.
I am interested in a Pension plan but I believe there is a limit that you can contribute. 3rd pillar but not a generous as in Switzerland

[candyflipper]

More payroll companies needed.

Of the 30 or so companies I've contacted, only around 6 of them responded, and of those, most of them drag their feet, and withhold information. I'm still looking for an umbrella company that is transparent, and motivated.

If a company that does business in Belgium has not been mentioned in this thread yet, please post.

BTW, one umbrella not mentioned yet is Alpha Resourcing, in case anyone is interested. Although they aren't at all transparent.. they want contractors to sign up for their black box, and find out after they've committed where their money goes.

[LostInBrussels]

I have not found one while sitting on the Bench.
Do you have a degree or proof of your expertise?
Then.
Do you know that it takes about 2 hours to become self employed for
€135.
I found this out at Securex 4 Rue de Genéve.

ITECS doesn't have a Belgian solution for me as I am a Belgian resident.They will take me on their payroll and I would pay full social security+ full tax+ their fee.
The reason being is I am not currently entitled to an E101 so I cannot use their solution.
Most mancos companies working in Switzerland, Luxembourg or Cyprus must exploit/fiddle the E101 rules. They do not look legal to me.
Their quotes are all based on paying social security outside Belgium and tax
in Belgium.
Their idea is that I pay Social security in Cyprus/Switerland where I am neither resident nor a national!
How can I as a Belgian resident with a British passport optain legally an E101
from eg Cyprus to work in Belgium?
Secondly an E101 is only valid for 1 yr. After a year you must apply for an E102. Belgium has the right to refuse an E102.

I guess if your 'employer' is Swiss or Cypriot, it's legal for them to pay social security for you where their company is based.

Anyhow, I am considering setting up my own SPRL. Sorry to be a pain, but can you tell me exactly how I can do it on my own.What is Securex? Is that the place where I have to register? Do you have a phone number or postal code for the place? Just typing in 4 Rue de Genéve into mappy.be is bringing up too many option.

Also, in your calculations in this thread, you show about 500 in expenses. Were you not interested in increasing your expenses by setting up a pension plan? I'm in two minds about this myself.

[LostInBrussels]

[QUOTE=Brussels Slumdog;852532]

Here is my worked example.
What I have not found out yet is how much I could claim in travel expenses
ie Living in Brussels staying over night in Belgium hotels etc
Billing clients in say France and claiming hotels

400 a day
Fees invoiced 8000
Less Expenses 500
Net Revenue 7500
22% soc security 1575
Taxable Income 5925
Tax up to 50% 2501
Take home pay 3423
43%

You mention how relatively quick it is to go down the independant route. Are you referring to forming an sprl?

[candyflipper]

Being a freelancer with only one client is more or less forbidden and seen as a way to pay less social security taxes.

From what I understand, freelancing pays the same in the end.

So social security is 25% (for freelancers) rather than 35%+13.07% (for employees under an umbrella), but the standard deduction for freelancing is half that of salaried income. And doesn't VAT somehow come into play with freelancing?

Belgian umbrellas are quoting the same about the same retention percentage for freelancing through them as being employed by them. So it would indeed be interesting to know what all is making up for the ~23% in reduced social security.

Umbrella companies that offer employed solutions tend to say professional cards are almost impossible to acquire in Belgium, and that it's a 6 month process. Umbrella companies who only offer the freelance option claim it's a simple 2-3 week relatively risk-free process.

[Rialto99]

Same here. I believe it is because clientco do not have a HR department, or rather they do, but it is their job to look nice and drink coffee, so they could not possibly manage such things as employee tax etc.

Spot on!

[Pepso]

One possibility could be they're afraid of being accused of disguised employment for long term contract. Being a freelancer with only one client is more or less forbidden and seen as a way to pay less social security taxes.

I share your point of view! They are afraid to deal with the consequences of long term contracts.
Here some info about SCS companies: http://www.belgium.be/fr/economie/en...e_societe/scs/

[CyranoB]

I do not understand the reason too!! They do not want to deal directly with freelancers. I am investigating the possibility to create a SCS company here in Belgium, which does not need the initial 6K EUR.

One possibility could be they're afraid of being accused of disguised employment for long term contract. Being a freelancer with only one client is more or less forbidden and seen as a way to pay less social security taxes.
I'm not sure of what a SCS would impact tax wise but to my understand it's legally very different.

[Brussels Slumdog]

A limited partnership (société en commandite simple)

I do not understand the reason too!! They do not want to deal directly with freelancers. I am investigating the possibility to create a SCS company here in Belgium, which does not need the initial 6K EUR.

Thanks,
I was not aware of an SCS options. How does this work regarding tax and social security.

[ace00]

I do not understand the reason too!! They do not want to deal directly with freelancers. I am investigating the possibility to create a SCS company here in Belgium, which does not need the initial 6K EUR.

Same here. I believe it is because clientco do not have a HR department, or rather they do, but it is their job to look nice and drink coffee, so they could not possibly manage such things as employee tax etc.

[Pepso]

I don't understand why they don't want you to bill them as a freelancer, as you get a company number and a VAT number. Actually I not even sure they can see the difference between a freelance and a SPRL from the VAT number.

I do not understand the reason too!! They do not want to deal directly with freelancers. I am investigating the possibility to create a SCS company here in Belgium, which does not need the initial 6K EUR.

[CyranoB]

I am Belgian resident too. The problem for me is that my agency does not accept the direct invoicing. They oblige me to go through a management company or to create my own SPRL.
The life of contractors in Belgium is becoming more and more difficult!!!!
May be the best solution is the SPRL??
Let me know if anyone is aware of different solutions.

I don't understand why they don't want you to bill them as a freelancer, as you get a company number and a VAT number. Actually I not even sure they can see the difference between a freelance and a SPRL from the VAT number.

Tax wise the only solution left to contract legally for a long time in Belgium is a SPRL.
And yes it's becoming a real pain to be a contractor in Belgium.

[Brussels Slumdog]

I am Belgian resident too. The problem for me is that my agency does not accept the direct invoicing. They oblige me to go through a management company or to create my own SPRL.
The life of contractors in Belgium is becoming more and more difficult!!!!
May be the best solution is the SPRL??
Let me know if anyone is aware of different solutions.

Will you always remain a Belgian resident like me as I am married to a Belgian
or will you one day go back to your own country ie UK.

Tell the agency that Belgian management companies don't exist and that foreign ones are not an option for Belgian residents.
In Belgium you have the option of being self-employed
http://www.inasti.be/en/selfemployed/index.htm
or SPRL

When you register as self employed you receive a VAT (TVA) number so
why is that a problem for a agency.

I am currently learning Dutch ,as I used to speak afrikaans, while sitting on the bench so I have not yet had this problem. I have spent more time working outside Belgium which is not a problem for me as I have no young children of my own and my wifes son is at Uni.
I think you need a minimum capital of about €6000 for your own SPRL and the
start up costs are higher.
One way maybe would be to set up a UK company and work as follows:-
Invoice say the UK agency your gross fees say €8000 from your UK company.
You as a Belgian self empoyed person invoice your UK company for €7000-€8000.
You declare the €7000-€8000 in Belgium. After paying a UK accountant and any other legal deductions you can think of plus a small UK salary your UK company makes zero profit.