Belgium: umbrella companies

[candyflipper]

What is your actual situation?

Are you a UK resident wishing to work in Belgium on a one off contract?
Do you have long term ambitions in Belgium ie a Belgian partner?

I'm a non-EU citizen, so I believe I may be limited to umbrellas that can apply for a work permit (as Belgium does not seem to allow individuals to apply directly).

I'm finding that there are not enough options. There seem to be so few umbrella companies that will operate in Belgium that there's no competition.

I can't say whether I'll be here long term or short term. Let's say 1-4 more years, there abouts. Probably not more than four.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Can of worms

I'm a non-EU citizen, so I believe I may be limited to umbrellas that can apply for a work permit (as Belgium does not seem to allow individuals to apply directly).

I'm finding that there are not enough options. There seem to be so few umbrella companies that will operate in Belgium that there's no competition.

I can't say whether I'll be here long term or short term. Let's say 1-4 more years, there abouts. Probably not more than four.

Umbrella companies don't exist in Belgium. This is an anglo saxon concept.

You are referring to Management companies based out of Luxembourg or Denmark,Cyprus,Switzerland.
I assume that these Management companies will apply for your work permit
in Luxembourg or Switzerland and send you to Belgium to work under the Schengen agreement. Note that the UK is not a member of the Schengen agreement therefore a work permit in the UK to work in Belgium is not an option.
Sounds like a can of worms to me.

[candyflipper]

Umbrella companies don't exist in Belgium. This is an anglo saxon concept.

You are referring to Management companies based out of Luxembourg or Denmark,Cyprus,Switzerland.

Albany Group calls themselves an umbrella company, and they operate in Belgium, among other places.

What's the difference between an umbrella company and a management company?

I assume that these Management companies will apply for your work permit
in Luxembourg or Switzerland and send you to Belgium to work under the Schengen agreement. Note that the UK is not a member of the Schengen agreement therefore a work permit in the UK to work in Belgium is not an option.

For a British umbrella company doing business in Belgium, I suspect the standard approach is to apply for a Belgian work permit. However, you're giving me an idea... are you saying I don't need a Belgian work permit? If I can get a work permit from any Schengen state, there may be a more liberal country that opens up some options. I would love to circumvent having to renew the work permit every year.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Albany Group calls themselves an umbrella company, and they operate in Belgium, among other places.

The Albany group does not have an office in Belgium,they operate through
their UK office. They are probabily an umbrella company in the UK Netherlands and Switzerland but a management company in the rest of Europe
What's the difference between an umbrella company and a management company?

An umbrella company as in the UK becomes your employer and you become an
employee on their UK payroll. Their whole purpose is to act as your company
for a fee.

A management company takes you on as an employee but maybe not on their own payroll. They also have other sources of income beside paying contractors


For a British umbrella company doing business in Belgium, I suspect the standard approach is to apply for a Belgian work permit.

However, you're giving me an idea... are you saying I don't need a Belgian work permit? If I can get a work permit from any Schengen state, there may be a more liberal country that opens up some options. I would love to circumvent having to renew the work permit every year.

First you find a job using an agency or a direct customer then you find an umbrella company to act as your employer.
I am not aware that an umbrella company can apply for work permits

[Javadehut]

Manco's under €400 p/m

Capital Consulting
Conto Direct Ltd- (Good reasonable fees NL)

They all charge about €450+ a month which is a rip off compared to UK umbrellas which average £125 a month.

I am currently investigating going the independant route as I live in Belgium but with the problem that I work more outside Belgium than in Belgium.
I believe you have to pay a minimum of €625 a quarter about €1800 year
or 21% of income

ITECS and PBP charge less. ITECS is 330 flat, not too sure about PBP or even if they take care of work permits? net is still great, until you pass the 4 year post in BE to resident status... then time to head home!

[LostInBrussels]

[QUOTE=Brussels Slumdog;847839]

I am currently investigating going the independant route as I live in Belgium but with the problem that I work more outside Belgium than in Belgium.

The Belgian independent route for long term stays.

Go to a "Guichets d'entreprises" find an address via internet in French.
I found someone at the one I went to who spoke English

Bring a copy of your degree/deploma or some form of proof of your expertise.
It may need to be translated so they will let me know.

I showed my Belgian Resident card so I don't know whether the accept Passports.

The next step takes 1 to 2 hours.

Registration
They apply and activate your VAT number
Costs €135
Register within 3 months with a mutual for social security otherwise the state
will choose one of their choice.
Deregistration when you leave Belgium
Costs €125

You must pay a minimum of about €600 a quarter or 22% of your income
which ever is the greater.

Fees invoiced
Less Expenses
Net Revenue
22% soc security
Taxable Income
Tax
Take home pay.

Really, the tax is 22% of your income? I thought it was much higher. Can I ask what your final retention percentage is for your gross income (including Soc Security payments)?

I am trying to create a spreadsheet to work out what my net retention would be if I went the independant route, but I'm having trouble working it out. So far, I'm showing a retention figure of 65% max, if I go the independant route. Does that sound right to you?

[CyranoB]

Really, the tax is 22% of your income? I thought it was much higher. Can I ask what your final retention percentage is for your gross income (including Soc Security payments)?

Yeah sure 22% tax in Belgium... dream on... This is only for social security (more or less what British call NI I think), then you still have to pay income taxes on what is left.

I am trying to create a spreadsheet to work out what my net retention would be if I went the independant route, but I'm having trouble working it out. So far, I'm showing a retention figure of 65% max, if I go the independant route. Does that sound right to you?

Well it really depends on your income and of expenses. One thing is sure: total taxes of 66% is not unheard of. A realistic figure could be something like 40-60% total taxes. But then again it depends on your income (because as a IT freelancer there is not much you can claim as expenses).

[Brussels Slumdog]

[QUOTE=LostInBrussels;852373]

Really, the tax is 22% of your income? I thought it was much higher. Can I ask what your final retention percentage is for your gross income (including Soc Security payments)?

I am trying to create a spreadsheet to work out what my net retention would be if I went the independant route, but I'm having trouble working it out. So far, I'm showing a retention figure of 65% max, if I go the independant route. Does that sound right to you?

Here is my worked example.
What I have not found out yet is how much I could claim in travel expenses
ie Living in Brussels staying over night in Belgium hotels etc
Billing clients in say France and claiming hotels

400 a day
Fees invoiced 8000
Less Expenses 500
Net Revenue 7500
22% soc security 1575
Taxable Income 5925
Tax up to 50% 2501
Take home pay 3423
43%

[Pepso]

Belgian payroll??

Hi All,
I wonder if someone can help me. I am looking for a "reliable" management company who can provide Belgian payroll solutions. As I have understood, nowadays only ITECS provides Belgian solutions...
Until now, I have been in contact only with mancos working in Switzerland, Luxembourg or Cyprus. As I live in Belgium with my family, I would like to be in the Belgian health care system.

Thanks

[Brussels Slumdog]

Why not the self employed route

Hi All,
I wonder if someone can help me. I am looking for a "reliable" management company who can provide Belgian payroll solutions. As I have understood, nowadays only ITECS provides Belgian solutions...
Until now, I have been in contact only with mancos working in Switzerland, Luxembourg or Cyprus. As I live in Belgium with my family, I would like to be in the Belgian health care system.

Thanks

I have not found one while sitting on the Bench.
Do you have a degree or proof of your expertise?
Then.
Do you know that it takes about 2 hours to become self employed for
€135.
I found this out at Securex 4 Rue de Genéve.

ITECS doesn't have a Belgian solution for me as I am a Belgian resident.They will take me on their payroll and I would pay full social security+ full tax+ their fee.
The reason being is I am not currently entitled to an E101 so I cannot use their solution.
Most mancos companies working in Switzerland, Luxembourg or Cyprus must exploit/fiddle the E101 rules. They do not look legal to me.
Their quotes are all based on paying social security outside Belgium and tax
in Belgium.
Their idea is that I pay Social security in Cyprus/Switerland where I am neither resident nor a national!
How can I as a Belgian resident with a British passport optain legally an E101
from eg Cyprus to work in Belgium?
Secondly an E101 is only valid for 1 yr. After a year you must apply for an E102. Belgium has the right to refuse an E102.