Reply to: Personal Tax Return penalty or not?

[Bob Jones]

And furthermore in the case of partnerships it is £100 per partner. There is no reduction in the case of a partnership return as the partnership return does not create a charge to tax. If you are late with your personal return there is a penalty and the penalty is £100, however, the amount of the penalty will be reduced to the amount unpaid as at 31 January - whatever the situation a late return attracts a penalty but the amount of the penalty could very well be £nil.

Bob

[YNWA]

taken from Shout99 website

Filing online
As it stands at the moment, if your Self Assessment tax return is still outstanding, you must now file this online by January 31 to avoid being charged a penalty.

You can still register to file your 2008 Self Assessment tax return online but as a security measure, HMRC needs to post an activation code to you. This is sent by first class post, but will not now reach before the deadline.

If you file your Self Assessment tax return on paper or online after 31 January you will be liable to a penalty of up to £100. But if you pay all the tax you owe by January 31 2009 the penalty will be reduced to ‘nil’. However, the penalty is not reduced in the case of a partnership return.

[DaveB]

and if you have not received a demand/reminder to submit a personal return at all, you can't be fined? correct or not?

Not correct. It is your obligation to determine whether you should submit an SA return or not and do so if you do, regardless of whether HMRC decide to send you the forms or a reminder.

[chris79]

No it doesn't. The penalty is limited to 100% of the tax due. So, if you owe less £50, the max penalty is £50. If you £0, the max penalty is £0. If you are due a rebate, the max penalty is £0. Believe me, this is correct. I file about 400 tax returns every year.

This is true, exactly what happened in my case.. and I only sorted this out less than 12 months ago after they came chasing me about it.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

We'll see. Don't file and you get a £100 fine. If you owe £0, the fine still stands.

No it doesn't. The penalty is limited to 100% of the tax due. So, if you owe less £50, the max penalty is £50. If you £0, the max penalty is £0. If you are due a rebate, the max penalty is £0. Believe me, this is correct. I file about 400 tax returns every year.

[Cheshire Cat]

Incorrect, onus on taxpayer to ask for a return if one is required (usually because income received not paye )

ok, thanks for clarifying

[Archangel]

and if you have not received a demand/reminder to submit a personal return at all, you can't be fined? correct or not?

Incorrect, onus on taxpayer to ask for a return if one is required (usually because income received not paye )

[chris79]

We'll see. Don't file and you get a £100 fine. If you owe £0, the fine still stands.

I got fined £100 for missing my 05/06 tax return when I took a year out to go back to Uni.

I owed £0, and I got my £100 fine back in the end plus about 37p interest.

[Ruprect]

and if you have not received a demand/reminder to submit a personal return at all, you can't be fined? correct or not?

I doubt it - burden of proof would be on HMRC then wouldn't it? Don't think they'd bother if they can get away with it.

[Cheshire Cat]

and if you have not received a demand/reminder to submit a personal return at all, you can't be fined? correct or not?

[DimPrawn]

Non-filing penalties are limited to the tax due. So if no liability - no penalty.

Also, even if you have a liability and yuo can demonstrate that it is the fault of HMRC that you couldn't file on time, because, for example, they haven't issued a UTR then the panalty may be waived. I have spoken to HMRC who confirmed this - OTR of course.

We'll see. Don't file and you get a £100 fine. If you owe £0, the fine still stands.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Non-filing penalties are limited to the tax due. So if no liability - no penalty.

Also, even if you have a liability and yuo can demonstrate that it is the fault of HMRC that you couldn't file on time, because, for example, they haven't issued a UTR then the panalty may be waived. I have spoken to HMRC who confirmed this - OTR of course.

[YNWA]

Taken these bits from accounting web:

''The initial penalty for a late individual return is £100, but this is capped at the amount of tax outstanding at 31 January. This capping process does not apply to partnership returns which must be filed online to avoid the penalty of £100 per partner.''

''Paper returns may be filed for cases where it is not possible to file online. This includes the 'excluded cases' and other taxpayers unable to file online, such as those without a UTR. For excluded cases, no penalty will apply. For other taxpayers you will need to ensure that the tax is paid by 31 January to cap the penalty at nil. ''


http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/cgi-b...&h=1023&f=1026

Link above for whole article...

thanks

[ASB]

The rule has always been, if there is no tax due as at 31/01/09 then no penalty can be charged?

Or if there is a refund due, even if the Return is late then no penalty can be charged?

Or am I wrong on both counts?

It **used** to be the case that the penalty was limited to the tax owing. Thus if no tax was actually due then no penalty. BUT I seem to recall the rule was changed a few years ago such as the non filing penalty became a specific penalty. I think it can also eventually cost 60 quid per day for not filing under some circumstances.

[YNWA]

The rule has always been, if there is no tax due as at 31/01/09 then no penalty can be charged?

Or if there is a refund due, even if the Return is late then no penalty can be charged?

Or am I wrong on both counts?