Reply to: Overpaid Corp Tax

[Bumfluff]

If it pays out in under six months, I'd be surprised.

Just be gut feeling, and not based on any knowledge (just like the rest of my posts, really).

No one really knows to be honest, my main concern is a government u-turn or if they say they will cover 100% upto say 100k and sell that on the basis only a small number of customers had greater than that amount. At least I wasnt using the off-shore accounts who dont get the same protection, feel sorry for everyone involved.

Still no news from my accountant either gggrrrrr

[TheFaQQer]

Yeah no news but I'm hoping things are going on behind the scenes, 3 months I can handle but anymore than that and its going to be a bit of a pain. Seems to be a growing frustration about the lack of info, some ICESAVE'rs are planning a protest outside either the Treasury or FSCS on the 7th Nov if they have recieved no further updates regarding the claims process by then. I will leave these ICESAVE'r do chasing for me

If it pays out in under six months, I'd be surprised.

Just be gut feeling, and not based on any knowledge (just like the rest of my posts, really).

[Bumfluff]

Just read the latest, no clue as to when the payout will be.

Yeah no news but I'm hoping things are going on behind the scenes, 3 months I can handle but anymore than that and its going to be a bit of a pain. Seems to be a growing frustration about the lack of info, some ICESAVE'rs are planning a protest outside either the Treasury or FSCS on the 7th Nov if they have recieved no further updates regarding the claims process by then. I will leave these ICESAVE'r do chasing for me

[ASB]

Moreover FRS income is not "other income". On FRS your turnover is simply sales inc. VAT less FRS VAT @ 13%.

QB.

I was trying to highlight to a certain extent how it is derived.

In terms of the statutory submitted P+L generally this will just say "turnover" and generally this will be net value of bills delivered. Typically most P+L I have seen will separately detail "other interest and similar income". [I don't t think there is an absolute requirement to do this though]

From Just1morethan it would appear that posting the net sale is OK. I personally would not do this - the FRS profit element is not a sale.

Edit: Just checked what HMRC happen to say. And it includes:-

"he Inland Revenue has confirmed that for businesses who are using the scheme, it is expected that accounts will be prepared using gross receipts less flat rate VAT percentage for turnover and that expenses will include the irrecoverable input VAT."

[i.e. as you state]

The fact of the matter, however, is that HMRC can EXPECT what the hell they want. They do not have the power to instruct you how to do your accounts. Only how to do your VAT calculation and submit the return.

[rootsnall]

Dear Mr ICESAVE give me my frolicking money back please !.

Just read the latest, no clue as to when the payout will be.

[QwertyBerty]

I think the answer may be more complex than you expect. Here's my take by example.

You have sales transactions for 85106 + vat @ 17.5% = 14984.

So, you have a P+L broadly of:-

Turnover
Consulting income 85106
Other income (profit of fixed rate scheme) 1984

Total Income 87000

However, it is complicated by the fact that your annual accounts need to be produced on an accrual basis, you presumably account for vat on a cash received basis. At the point the invoice is raised the vat liability is in fact still 14,984. Whether at this point you can reduce this to 13,000 - in the accounts by journalising the 1984 from the liability to income is unknown.

In my opinion at the point of invoice the liability is still 14984. It is only when this is settled at the next vat quarter that it is magically discounted to 13,000. Thus generating the 1984 other income.

I am sure there is an accounting standard on it (it may let you do either, provided you take a consistent approach)

Like you say accounts for ltdco need to be done on an accrual basis. All services rendered for the financial year need to be shown along with accrued sales, VAT, salaries, taxes etc right up to the last day of the period. What you say seems overly complicated.

Moreover FRS income is not "other income". On FRS your turnover is simply sales inc. VAT less FRS VAT @ 13%.

QB.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

I am sure there is an accounting standard on it (it may let you do either, provided you take a consistent approach)

Provided you apply the accounting method consistently, you can do either.

To the OP, it is a bit worrying that your accountant couldn't advise yuo the answer to your question straight away.

[ASB]

On end of year accounts would the total revenue figure exclude VAT at the flat rate level if your on it or 17.5% regardless ?

So lets say your turnover is £100k including VAT at 17.5% but your on the flat rate scheme so you pay 13% would the total revenue figure stated be £87k or £82.5k ?

£100k - £13k (13% flat rate Vat) = £87k
or
£100k - £17.5 (17.5k) % VAT = £82.5k

Not sure if the total revenue figure in my accounts is overstated or not.

I think the answer may be more complex than you expect. Here's my take by example.

You have sales transactions for 85106 + vat @ 17.5% = 14984.

So, you have a P+L broadly of:-

Turnover
Consulting income 85106
Other income (profit of fixed rate scheme) 1984

Total Income 87000

However, it is complicated by the fact that your annual accounts need to be produced on an accrual basis, you presumably account for vat on a cash received basis. At the point the invoice is raised the vat liability is in fact still 14,984. Whether at this point you can reduce this to 13,000 - in the accounts by journalising the 1984 from the liability to income is unknown.

In my opinion at the point of invoice the liability is still 14984. It is only when this is settled at the next vat quarter that it is magically discounted to 13,000. Thus generating the 1984 other income.

I am sure there is an accounting standard on it (it may let you do either, provided you take a consistent approach)

[QwertyBerty]

Im waiting for accountant to get back to me but to be honest I think it may be a screw up on there side, this is based on the fact it took nearly 7 iterations to get the frigging accounts right in the first place, and my accounts are not complex at all. Does beg the question 'what do I pay them for'.

Good question. Bite the bullet, buy a couple of books and do your own accounts. It's easy once you get into it.

QB.

[Bumfluff]

Im waiting for accountant to get back to me but to be honest I think it may be a screw up on there side, this is based on the fact it took nearly 7 iterations to get the frigging accounts right in the first place, and my accounts are not complex at all. Does beg the question 'what do I pay them for'.

[Emigre]

On end of year accounts would the total revenue figure exclude VAT at the flat rate level if your on it or 17.5% regardless ?

So lets say your turnover is £100k including VAT at 17.5% but your on the flat rate scheme so you pay 13% would the total revenue figure stated be £87k or £82.5k ?

£100k - £13k (13% flat rate Vat) = £87k
or
£100k - £17.5 (17.5k) % VAT = £82.5k

Not sure if the total revenue figure in my accounts is overstated or not.

The FRS, being calculated on gross figures, is odd in that just about all other calculations are based on net figures; hence all this confusion.

Accounting turnover in your example above is £85,106. ie £85,106 + VAT at 17.5% = £100,000. FRS at 13% is correctly shown.

[expat]

If your on the flat rate scheme you pay 13% of your total income including VAT so:

£100k + 17.5% VAT (17,500) = £117,500 Total
£117,500 - 13% FRS (15,275) = £102,225k turnover

so 87K in your example.

The OP said "So lets say your turnover is £100k including VAT at 17.5%".

So,
£100k including 17.5% VAT = £100,000 Total
£100,000 - 13% FRS (13,000) = £87,000 turnover

[Bomber]

If your on the flat rate scheme you pay 13% of your total income including VAT so:

£100k + 17.5% VAT (17,500) = £117,500 Total
£117,500 - 13% FRS (15,275) = £102,225k turnover

so 87K in your example.

[NickFitz]

Shouldn't your accountant deal with this? Crap like this is what you pay them for.

[Bumfluff]

Total revenue/turnover would be your total income not including the VAT. Although I'm sure they'd appreciate getting 22% corporate tax on the VAT you already collected for them.

Thanks, I understand its total rev - VAT but if your on the flat rate which I am will it be total rev - 13% or total rev - 17.5% ?

My turnover looks overstated if its 17.5% but near enough correct if its 13%. In effect I make some profit off the flat rate scheme so can understand paying CT on it.