Reply to: I got Back Stabbed by an Agent(!)... your help welcome

[TheBigYinJames]

IME it is EXTREMELY unusual to be asked to supply references.

Haven't done much Security Cleared work then.

[oracleslave]

IME it is EXTREMELY unusual to be asked to supply references.

Never in 25 years has a client asked for them from me. Any requests for references have purely been "lead collecting" requests from agents and I have no problem in declining.

tim

Couldn't agree more.

[tim123]

Regarding references, its not unusual to have to supply them.

IME it is EXTREMELY unusual to be asked to supply references.

Never in 25 years has a client asked for them from me. Any requests for references have purely been "lead collecting" requests from agents and I have no problem in declining.

tim

[Another Dodgy Agent]

[QUOTE=TheBigYinJames;643989]

Cool. No really, now we are likened to waiters, its a new one and so far removed from double glazing salesman./QUOTE]

Well, I have called one or two used car salesmen in my time, but in my experience most agents are just trying to make the deal work, and most will go out of their way to accommodate your wishes if it's at all possible. When making the deal aligns itself with what the contractor wants, the agent is perceived as a 'good guy' and when it doesn't, he's a 'bad guy'.

It's lack of consistency that irks me about the industry, it seems that any spotty oik can walk in off the street on an OTE with an agency and try to sell snow to the Eskimos. Usually you can sniff these ones out easily (yes I see you have 4 years C#, but do you know any .Net?) but I don't really appreciate providing on-the-job training for them at the expense of my rep with ClientCos who may be punted my CV for irrelevant jobs if I'm not careful to catch them.

Some sort of certification or training for agents would be nice. they're always asking for TLAs from us, why not them?

Yeah I know and I agree. Half the prob is an agent is often only as good as the roles he/she has. So, I could be a good guy because a role comes in at the same time as the ideal candidate - I match one to the other, quick deal, client happy with result, get good rate etc. everyone happy. Now that contractor is going to think, top agent. Alternatively he/she sends CV in, I have nothing suitable, the one interview I get him/her is not quite right and I don't have any other similar roles at the time, consequence of this is candidate thinks agent is a waiter!

My training was gained learning the role and have fine tuned over nearly 11 years and I agree training should be provided to the junior consultants of this world however, the low end of the market has such a high turnover that most agencies begrudge providing any form of knowledge/training to new recruits.

[shanti]

Utter cobblers, you either have no clue or are a troll I can't decide.

I'm no fan of many of the Agents out there, the vast majority of their staff are utter pillocks, but the agents are a critical part of the current contracting landscape.

Client Perspective
Agents filter CV's, a client has no desire to see hundreds of CV's per role many of which are illiterate, poorly laid out or just utterly unsuitable
Agents invoice for all of their contractors at agreed intervals which are decided in a few commercial meetings. Clients have no desire to have their accounts payable team bombarded by weekly/monthly/quarterly invoices from every contractor, they also don't get loads of people chasing payments
Agents represent a security buffer against problem candidates hassling for feedback/terms/rates/offers
Agents protect the client against people claiming employment rights since the contractors are contracted to the Agency
Hiring, Line Managers and HR are protected from endless streams of contractors punting for work

Contractor Perspective
No cold calling
No chasing round looking for useful contacts
Cash flow is the Agents problem, if the client pays 3 months in arreers who cares
Agents provide a commercial negotiation service that many contractors lack the skills or inclination to perform for themselves

There are probably loads more benefits to both Client and Contractor which I can't be bothered to come up with.

If you can't deal with Agents then you're not going to get far as a Contractor since until you have a reputation for being useful you certainly won't secure work direct.

All very insightful. I can see that the agents job is necessary and I see the benefits. Try calling a hiring manager, very unlikely that they will ever take a call, an agent usually will as there is money to be made. However, you have to admit - the quality of the agents is highly variable - and its is very, very unregulated - with many posting false adverts and involved in the worst kind of body shopping behaviour.

You get the right gig, in the right place, with the right client, but the quality of the agent - freaking ruins it (or makes the whole contract unworthy) - your only choice is to walk away. Its a lot of variables to get right. Often having to walk away after a large investment of your time (and being one of many candidates).

Get over it, you've not only lost the gig through your own incompetance, you've made yourself look a total fool to Big Client PLC, the Agency and quite frankly anyone who reads this thread.

The purposes of these threads are to anonymously share experiences, gain advice and collectively learn - not to worry about one's ego.

[TheBigYinJames]

[QUOTE=Another Dodgy Agent;643951]Cool. No really, now we are likened to waiters, its a new one and so far removed from double glazing salesman./QUOTE]

Well, I have called one or two used car salesmen in my time, but in my experience most agents are just trying to make the deal work, and most will go out of their way to accommodate your wishes if it's at all possible. When making the deal aligns itself with what the contractor wants, the agent is perceived as a 'good guy' and when it doesn't, he's a 'bad guy'.

It's lack of consistency that irks me about the industry, it seems that any spotty oik can walk in off the street on an OTE with an agency and try to sell snow to the Eskimos. Usually you can sniff these ones out easily (yes I see you have 4 years C#, but do you know any .Net?) but I don't really appreciate providing on-the-job training for them at the expense of my rep with ClientCos who may be punted my CV for irrelevant jobs if I'm not careful to catch them.

Some sort of certification or training for agents would be nice. they're always asking for TLAs from us, why not them?

[oracleslave]

I've been away for a few days and was most disappointed to find this thread was still active.

You are not helping...

[HermanDune]

Stop posting on this thread NOW!

I've been away for a few days and was most disappointed to find this thread was still active.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Very depressing reading isn't it? How we allow the middlemen to get between a willing employer and a willing worker (and then set their terms).

And you know why that is? Because you don't have the ability to create the relationship between employer and worker (BTW that makes you sound so like a permy but anyway).

So the solution is simple, don't allow the "middlemen" to get in the way of your perceived relationship. My suggestion is you get on the phone tomorrow morning and ring around the various companies in your market sector. Deal with HR, deal with voicemails, have people tell you they are not looking, not interested, your too expensive, credit crunch - you'll love it!!

[Another Dodgy Agent]

You got it in one. You LET the middleman get between you by making his job as difficult as you could. Agents are just one of the things you have to work around in this job, and you do that by keeping your contact with them at the start of a stint as short and smooth as possible. You do not do that by letting them know you think they are bloodsucking leeches out to con you.

My dad used to always say that you should never be rude to a waiter until after you've eaten, for a very good reason, and it works with agents too.

Cool. No really, now we are likened to waiters, its a new one and so far removed from double glazing salesman. I have a lot of respect for waiters/waitresses (having spent a lot of eating/drinking time at their efforts), who knows then, perhaps the recruitment industry could be going in the right direction...hardworking folk not nearly rewarded enough money for the work undertaken...

[TykeMerc]

Very depressing reading isn't it? How we allow the middlemen to get between a willing employer and a willing worker (and then set their terms).

Utter cobblers, you either have no clue or are a troll I can't decide.

I'm no fan of many of the Agents out there, the vast majority of their staff are utter pillocks, but the agents are a critical part of the current contracting landscape.

Client Perspective
Agents filter CV's, a client has no desire to see hundreds of CV's per role many of which are illiterate, poorly laid out or just utterly unsuitable
Agents invoice for all of their contractors at agreed intervals which are decided in a few commercial meetings. Clients have no desire to have their accounts payable team bombarded by weekly/monthly/quarterly invoices from every contractor, they also don't get loads of people chasing payments
Agents represent a security buffer against problem candidates hassling for feedback/terms/rates/offers
Agents protect the client against people claiming employment rights since the contractors are contracted to the Agency
Hiring, Line Managers and HR are protected from endless streams of contractors punting for work

Contractor Perspective
No cold calling
No chasing round looking for useful contacts
Cash flow is the Agents problem, if the client pays 3 months in arreers who cares
Agents provide a commercial negotiation service that many contractors lack the skills or inclination to perform for themselves

There are probably loads more benefits to both Client and Contractor which I can't be bothered to come up with.

If you can't deal with Agents then you're not going to get far as a Contractor since until you have a reputation for being useful you certainly won't secure work direct.

Get over it, you've not only lost the gig through your own incompetance, you've made yourself look a total fool to Big Client PLC, the Agency and quite frankly anyone who reads this thread.

[pmeswani]

Aha. I see where the problem lies.

You highlighted the wrong word(s). It should have been Willing Worker.

[TheBigYinJames]

Very depressing reading isn't it? How we allow the middlemen to get between a willing employer and a willing worker (and then set their terms).

You got it in one. You LET the middleman get between you by making his job as difficult as you could. Agents are just one of the things you have to work around in this job, and you do that by keeping your contact with them at the start of a stint as short and smooth as possible. You do not do that by letting them know you think they are bloodsucking leeches out to con you.

My dad used to always say that you should never be rude to a waiter until after you've eaten, for a very good reason, and it works with agents too.

[NotAllThere]

Very depressing reading isn't it? How we allow the middlemen to get between a willing employer and a willing worker (and then set their terms).

Aha. I see where the problem lies.

[shanti]

8 pages of people telling you the same thing Shanti and it still hasn't sunk in! Please keep the thread alive though and let us all know what happens, and how much time you spent on it in total...

Very depressing reading isn't it? How we allow the middlemen to get between a willing employer and a willing worker (and then set their terms).