Agency Bullying tactics Again

[The Lone Gunman]

Section 5.

Restriction on requiring work seekers to use additional services.

5. Neither an agency nor an employment business may make the provision to a work seeker of work finding services conditional upon the work seeker

a) using other services for which the Act does not prohibit the charging of a fee, or
b) hiring or purchasing goods

whether provided by the agency or the employment business or by any person with whom the agency or employment business is connected.

I suggest that this section prohibits such a practice, but I am not a legal bod.

[Lucifer Box]

Ah, but by that stage you're not looking for work.

[privateeye]

If an agent insists that you use a specific umbrella company and you are charged for using that umbrella, then are they not in breach of Employment Regulations that specifically state that a candidate must never be charged for looking for work which in effect is what they are doing.

Just a thought.

[Sponge Bob]

Well that is exactly what the situation is with the agencies. They all have PSL's in place, what they should be doing is giving you the names of the Umbrellas on their PSL as a recommendation for you to investigate. Most agencies are actually quite good, whereby they just recommend umbrellas that they have agreements with and then it is up to us to figure out who we want to use. Upon entering the territory of the so called "Big Boys", there are certain agreements that are in place, where it is purely the £ sign speaking and nothing else.

Like the others say it ultimately boils down to the size of your balls if you are willing to walk away. I can guarantee a consultant will soon tulip his trevors if you say thanks but no thanks, as his commision from the deal will far outweigh the commision from an umbrella, so call his bluff, tell him you have other things on the table, and he either wants you with your own umbrella, or he can pretty much crawl back to the client and tell them that he/she lost you because they told you who had to pay you.

At the end of the day these people dont care whether you use their umbrellas or not, they are just doing as they are told.

[malvolio]

You're also missing the logical conlcusion: if the agencies are peddling the line to their clients that "use our people and you won't get tax or employment hassle from Hector", how long before a proper, independent freelance won't get a look in to the bulk of the marketplace because the big agencies will have their own supply of workers under contract via the umbrellas?

[Lucifer Box]

It's only right to let the client and agent know why this is not satisfactory.

First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

[John Galt]

Agree with you absolutely Malvolio. My point was that threatening/reasoning with those big agencies with set policies is never going to get you very far. The individual pimps have been given their parameters to work within, and if you fall outside these you are no use to them.

Far better to spend your energy finding a new contract than chasing a lost cause.

But then again Insight, if we all ignore what is happening with these big agencies surely it will only get worse - if one agency is seen to get away with dictating terms to us wont they all try it? Then we wont have anywhere to run. I think a word to the client is the best way to go - if it happens often enough they will soon realise that the agency is more trouble to them than it is worth.

[insight14]

Agree with you absolutely Malvolio. My point was that threatening/reasoning with those big agencies with set policies is never going to get you very far. The individual pimps have been given their parameters to work within, and if you fall outside these you are no use to them.

Far better to spend your energy finding a new contract than chasing a lost cause.

[malvolio]

OK, but they're just not empty "threats to the agent". If there are numpties out there who will sign up to being full time employees without any rights (which there clearly are), then we have a group of people who are stuck firmly in the late 18th century mill-worker mentality while pretending to themselves, if no-one else, to be cutting-edge flexible-economy workers.

So who's kidding whom? Stop dealing with the Hays and CPs of this world and we'll be a lot better off. But if we don't tell the end clients why, it's a waste of time and we may as well work for Office Angels and save all the grief.

[insight14]

I interviewed for a contract with one of Hayes' clients about 6 months ago and was offered it on condition of using one of 6 umbrellas on their PSL. I argued hard with the agent, but it was pretty obvious she was just following company policy and wasn't going to budge.

Malvolio's threats to the agent might make you feel better, but you can be sure the client will have "filled the position internally" roughly 2 minutes after you put the phone down.

If you don't like the way they operate, do as I did and don't accept the contract. There's plenty of other contractors out there who will bend to the agent's will (unfortunately).

[malvolio]

Depends how much you want/need the work. Personally, I'd tell them your financial arrangements are none of their business and walk away, with a polite letter to the client explaining why.

Slightly more cunning plan though is to ask them why they are insisting on treating you like an employee without giving you any of the statutory employment rights - sick pay, pension, annual leave, redundancy protection, etc., etc. - which you will of course expect if you sign up to their contract for service. You might also like to point out that you are sure the DTI will be interested to learn of their sidestepping current employment legislation in this way...

[rootsnall]

I guess there is some extra money in it for them one way or another and they are also forcing you to pay your full whack of NI so that won't come back to bite them or their clients !?

[Bookworm]

After reading about the efforts of Computer People to dictate how we are paid I know find that I have had to change my umbrella company because Hayes have dictated that unless I use their PSL for payroll and umbrella services, they cannot give me the contract.

This I find incredible as it is my skills that they require, and who or how I get paid is none of their business. The consultant I discussed this with was extremely abrupt, but then again I can only assume that he is doiing his master's bidding.

Next Time around I will be looking to use another agency. In my opinion, there is obviously some very grey arrangement between Hayes and their PSL, and quite frankly this could all blow up in their faces. If I find myself having to get a contract through Hayes again, I will be definitely discussing the situation with the client.

Is this an Isolated incident or is this something I should fight?